In the last 3897 days, only one man has gone sub 3:47.00

Steve Scott never ran nearly as fast in the 800m as Webb (1:45.05 or so in his best year to Webb's 1:43.84). But Scott also did not run a lot of 8's and was likely not maxed out at the 8, not running in a super fast race that day. Indeed, Webb was himself clearly far from his best in the 8 prior to running his pr. He had a pr of around 1:46 until that year, which did not seem at all what you'd expect from a 47/3:49 guy (with 1:47.7 in hs), which he was prior to that year.

absolutely. those times were run under EP if it were legit how comes it hasn't been run again or anybody else come closer to that n don forget the following yr Lagat had tested positive in the first sample also why did EL G retired so early? was it a cover up so that we can believe his times were legit?

Are you also implying that Bekele's dominance of the 5,000 and 10,000 are also because he doped/is doping? Face it, there are just some athletes that are extremely, extremely talented. People such as Geb, Bekele, El G, Lagat, etc. It is indeed talent.

Three major things have happened since around 2000 that deeply has effected the evolution of competion in the 1500/Mile:

1. Diamond League has moved up from four/five meetings a year to too many to keep track off, when it was only four/five the competition in each for the year's biggest paycheck was much, much harder and everyones invited peaking for the same few races brought stiffer competition in those few races.

2. The still continuing Marathon (paycheck) Boom has more African talents moving directly to the Marathon, where times hence have improved substansially.

1: Qatar, Turkey and other arab nations without a running tradition of their own has started to "buy" young Kenyan middle distance (and hurdle) talents just to put them on their own national team, this has backfired on good times over 1500/Miles on two levels, a) it's easier and less competitive than it used to be to get on the Kenyan nation team for the 1500 (yes, "easier", everything's relative) and with those "outsourced" runners being PAID to focus on Worlds and the Olympics and being PAID by their new nations to use the Diamond League as tune up races there's less incentive to clock times and leave with money and that time as a guarantee for future invites/money and MORE incentive to sit back and kick for victory and leaving DL with mental advantage over opponents when going into the champs.

2006 - twice by Bekele. Now some people here claim that

there are plenty of people after (KB,Songok, Lagat etc) who could've gone sub 12:50 but didn't due to poor pacing.

It seems to me that approx 3:29 and 12:45 are the limits without doping. 3:29 was run 26 1/2 yrs by by Crammie and Aouita!!!

el g retired early because he was the greatest. there was literally nothing left for him to do

With regards to your first point, the fact that there are more diamond league races means that there are more opportunities to run in fast, orchestrated paced races. Ideally a record attempt doesn't want ALL the other best athletes in it, as otherwise it often turns into a cat and mouse affair. If the current crop know they are capable of 3:26/3:27 then they would ask for the necessary rabbits to hit 55, 1:50.5, 2:32.0. They don't because they know they couldn't maintain that pace. Kiprop tried last year with 54.9, 1:50.0, 2:32 and bits, and died a terrible death in the last 300, failing to break 3:30. The last 5 years has shown that the current bunch are 3:28 high/3:29 athletes at best. This is no better than what the likes of Cram. Coe & Aouita were doing/capable of nearly 30 years ago.

Your 2nd point about the marathon may affect 10000m performances but has little no influence over what has been produced over 1500m.

Your 3rd point has little relevance also. The number of top athletes changing nationality is negligible and it didn't stop the likes of Ramzi not only running faster, but also giving him medical back up to stay ahead of the pack.

get a clue

read what canova said about what pacers are being paid now compared to 10+y ago

10y ago he said the pacer coud expect ~ $10k

nowdays, all that is offered is ~ $1500

if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys

that is why you hardly ever get an even 56/1'52/2'34 nowdays

the skill the ole time pacers bring is that they woud practice in training to hit 56/1'52 & even 2'34 so they coud reproduce it in the race

the modern guys have no incentive to practice for $1500 payday & even if nominally they may be 1'46 or 3'34 guys, their pacing is wild & erratic

there is a skill to tempo judgement & if you aren't paid enough to practice it, you will get 54/1'54 instead of 56/1'52

pacing is probably better today. it is EPO. wake up.

explain how epo is a substitute for practice ?

Traveler wrote:

Im am not asking about the 1500m, period.

And we don't care about your mile, period.

*yawn*

i didn't say it was. however, epo gives a boost worth a few secs in the 1500m. Unless Canova is right that African's don't respond to it.

Never Neverland wrote:El G was the GREATEST OF ALL TIME!!!

Someone get ventolin to run his nifty little calculator. I bet it'll say he could've run 7:15 / 12:32

his likely lines of fit in '98 were :

47.8 / 1'43.0 -> 2'11.8 , 3'25.8 , 4'42.0 , 7'19.2 , 12'46.1

or

47.7 / 1'42.9 -> 2'11.7 , 3'25.7 , 4'42.1 , 7'19.6 , 12'47.1

or

47.6 / 1'42.8 -> 2'11.6 , 3'25.7 , 4'42.2 , 7'19.9 , 12'48.1

i favor the middle line

he woud never have broken 7'19 let alone 12'45 in '98, but he couda broken the 1k wr ( which noah did the next year )

With regards to your first point, the fact that there are more diamond league races means that there are more opportunities to run in fast, orchestrated paced races. Ideally a record attempt doesn't want ALL the other best athletes in it, as otherwise it often turns into a cat and mouse affair. If the current crop know they are capable of 3:26/3:27 then they would ask for the necessary rabbits to hit 55, 1:50.5, 2:32.0. They don't because they know they couldn't maintain that pace. Kiprop tried last year with 54.9, 1:50.0, 2:32 and bits, and died a terrible death in the last 300, failing to break 3:30. The last 5 years has shown that the current bunch are 3:28 high/3:29 athletes at best. This is no better than what the likes of Cram. Coe & Aouita were doing/capable of nearly 30 years ago.

Your 2nd point about the marathon may affect 10000m performances but has little no influence over what has been produced over 1500m.

Your 3rd point has little relevance also. The number of top athletes changing nationality is negligible and it didn't stop the likes of Ramzi not only running faster, but also giving him medical back up to stay ahead of the pack.

ventolin^3 wrote:

Never Neverland wrote:El G was the GREATEST OF ALL TIME!!!

Someone get ventolin to run his nifty little calculator. I bet it'll say he could've run 7:15 / 12:32

his likely lines of fit in '98 were :

47.8 / 1'43.0 -> 2'11.8 , 3'25.8 , 4'42.0 , 7'19.2 , 12'46.1

or

47.7 / 1'42.9 -> 2'11.7 , 3'25.7 , 4'42.1 , 7'19.6 , 12'47.1

or

47.6 / 1'42.8 -> 2'11.6 , 3'25.7 , 4'42.2 , 7'19.9 , 12'48.1

i favor the middle line

he woud never have broken 7'19 let alone 12'45 in '98, but he couda broken the 1k wr ( which noah did the next year )

In what way is the 400m time relevant? Why do you keep using that?

Bushman wrote:In what way is the 400m time relevant? Why do you keep using that?

because it is the base time to work from

I then asked his coach the same questions-he said he has run 48 for 400m and 1:44 high for 800m in training...

He said he thought he could probably run 1:43 low at 800

considering he woudn't have been race sharp in training, the prediction of high-47 & high-1'42/1'43-flat in circuit race in '98 looks good

Frustrating is the word. His fastest mile since then is 3:55 almost 10 second slower!

This makes Webb one of the strangest footnotes in Track and Field history.

3901....