Cowtown Marathon Winner DQ'd

I heard he was pacing a friend in the half, but felt good enough to run the whole thing. That seems innocent enough, but I do think he should have dropped out well before the finish line.

asaccc wrote:

No. A transferring policy is the exact solution to the problem you are talking about.

That's debatable. I've had to deal with people that sign up early for limited slots under the assumption that we'd let them transfer them if they weren't ready to run. Of course others that wanted to run made other plans thinking the event was full. So allowing transfers could easily make it more likely events would "fill" earlier, but it would also make it more difficult for the RD to determine the true number of actual available slots since the transfer rate is elastic.

So a transfer policy could just as easily cause other problems if not thought through. If a RD has got down all the "blocking and tackling" stuff, cool, start looking at other services to offer runners. Personally I'd rather they worried more about having the race start on time and getting the cones in the right spot first.

If there's a service available like was mentioned earlier in the thread that makes the transfer as easy as a normal registration, great, but if you don't have normal registration down well then adding another "service" is a bad idea.

working hard for the money wrote:$30 transfer fee x 7,000 = $210,000 - any resources used= likely even more of a profit.

No, I get that. And concur that bib transfers should be accommodated by marathon directors --especially now that they sell out 8 months in advance. But then an extra 7,000 people will show up in Chicago and there'd be costs associated with actually providing a "product" for them -- which would further cut into the profit model you cite. It is my belief that Chicago really doesn't expect or want all 45,000 on race day.

asaccc wrote:

Don't act so smug about your beliefs.

Settle guy. Everything is gonna be OK.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

I heard he was pacing a friend in the half, but felt good enough to run the whole thing. That seems innocent enough, but I do think he should have dropped out well before the finish line.

NOOOOOOO!

He should have dropped out right before the finish line.

asaccc wrote:

BS. You did not hear about a marathon the day before and then go out and run sub 2:30. If you were in that good of shape i imagine you would already have had a goal race in mind, and randomly running a sub 2:30 would have only hurt your chances of running a faster time for your goal race. BS

Yes I did. Marine Corps. I was at Continental in Rosslyn after work and a co-worker was talking bout how he had gone to the expo to pick up his stuff even though he was not running. I told him i would run and I did. I ran 2:28 and change for a top-10 finish. I won't go any further.

Why would I lie on here? It is anonymous and this username is a BS name I made up this morning. I wasn't training for anything in particular, but I had run mid 2:20s about 5 months prior.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

I didn't say I'm on his side. I'm trying to be neutral and see both sides. I think it's bad publicity if your winner is disqualified for something like this. He ran the entire race with an official bib number that someone paid for. I started the thread for input as to what could have been done or can be done differently in the future. The obvious solution is the guy should have registered himself, but I don't know his circumstances.

I think it's really bad publicity to disqualify the winner under these particular circumstances.....maybe this guy should have gone to the reg. comm. & said he was runnig in place of his friend who couldn't make it, for whatever reason, to the maarthon.

At least the disqualification was done, i'm assuming on the day of the arce not like a month down the road as what happened to two finishers in a marathon (won't go into details here) years ago! Two guys thought they had their qual. for Boston legit. only to find out they weren't due to some rule violation.

Hopkinton wrote:

But then an extra 7,000 people will show up in Chicago and there'd be costs associated with actually providing a "product" for them -- which would further cut into the profit model you cite. It is my belief that Chicago really doesn't expect or want all 45,000 on race day.

An "extra 7000" aren't showing-- they're replacing those who can't/don't want to do it. At least if there's a transfer system in place, they can expect/know how many replacement people are showing up. At an extra $210,000 (- resources used), they're still likely to turn a significant profit.

Right. But Chicago race directors do not plan for all 45,000 to show up. The number they work with since raising the entry cap in 2007 is 37,000 to 38,000.

Maybe Scott Downard should have entered the race himself, rather than banditing....and that is what this is....BANDITING.

What about smaller local races? It is easier for me to get into Chicago than our local race. There are basically no services at this race. Only two years ago your could sign up DOR. So what do you do in this situation? It really is as easy as changing the name and signing a form. Guess what? I will likely run with a bib that they won't transfer.

Hopkinton wrote:

Right. But Chicago race directors do not plan for all 45,000 to show up. The number they work with since raising the entry cap in 2007 is 37,000 to 38,000.

I would hope that after the 'running out of water' fiasco a few years ago, they now plan for MORE than what they truly expect. Even so, they would just need to adjust their limits if they truly couldn't handle 45,000.

It just seems most RDs are so set on not offering anything new to their races. An experienced RD should have the basics down so adding a transfer process should be doable. Especially with automated systems. It has been done at races before, as mentioned in this thread, so all the excuses about unknown consequences are simply that, excuses.

If Marine Corps can do it, Chicago can too. The question is why don't they?

T O wrote:

Hopkinton wrote:

Right. But Chicago race directors do not plan for all 45,000 to show up. The number they work with since raising the entry cap in 2007 is 37,000 to 38,000.

I would hope that after the 'running out of water' fiasco a few years ago, they now plan for MORE than what they truly expect. Even so, they would just need to adjust their limits if they truly couldn't handle 45,000.

It just seems most RDs are so set on not offering anything new to their races. An experienced RD should have the basics down so adding a transfer process should be doable. Especially with automated systems. It has been done at races before, as mentioned in this thread, so all the excuses about unknown consequences are simply that, excuses.

oh please, RDs aren't obliged to offer anything new just to satisfy some spoiled brats. RDs are obligated to perform the services they advertise well, nothing more. Don't like the advertised services, don't register. No RD has to justify to you or any other whiner why they're not offering some service, it's a decision, not an excuse. If they are meeting their participation targets without offering a service, clearly not offering it was a good business decision.

Anyone who claims this is impossible/too much of a hassle for a "big" race needs is obviously wrong. The "Indy Mini" (half marathon in Indianapolis) is awesome in my opinion because it offers this option, puts on a great race, and keeps costs reasonable. The race is 35,000+.

The race is early May. From February through early April they allow transfers. $20 transfer fee. Transferer & transferee are responsible for arranging everything, working out purchase price, etc... The new entrant just goes to the website, clicks on "transfer", puts in the original entrant's name and confirmation number. Pays the $20 transfer fee (via credit card, etc..), fills out all the same information/waivers that every entrant fills out, and that's it. Hassle-free, and the race still has a full month to do whatever extra is necessary for a transfer.

It is a HUGE perk, and I believe a Best-in-Class practice for large races that are selling out earlier & earlier. As a participant who has no idea how training, life, injuries will limit my preparation for a race 6-9 months in the future, I resent having to pay a big entry fee and have no option to get my money back if I can't participate. It sucks, and detracts from the overall event.

All large(r) races should consider implementing such a policy. At the very least, ask Indy how they pull it off. They use a standard online registration company, so I imagine the option is there for other races. And, race size is not the issue because there are few races with more participants.

Oh, and as for the OP, of course the guy should have been DQ'd. It's too bad he didn't try contacting the race director beforehand to try to work something out, and it's too bad the race (like most races) didn't allow transfers.

Too late. Sold my bib for over double from a sold out race i couldnt go to Had over 20-30 people offering nearly 4x the value after I already sold it.

Give the guy a break. First off, he works at a running store= Little income. One should look at it from his perspective.

He's a relatively competitive runner, as he won the race, nor was it on a fast course. A win is a win.

In all honesty, he had a paid for bib number, hammered out 26.2 miles, and most importantly, won the race. Do we really need to be so political correct, and such sticklers to DQ him? It's not always a bad thing to make an exception here and there, this is not the G'D Olympics were talking about, just some local elites that work full time jobs.

Pick it up wrote:

And if you look at a race like the Chicago Marathon, in 2011 45,000 registered and 35,670 finished. So over 9,000 never started (or DNF). Chicago could probably make a lot of money transfering those registrations to other runners if they don't mind the administrative hassle.

That's what I'M sayin'! Charge enough to make it worth your while, and it's win-win fer everyone.

wellacctually wrote:

Give the guy a break. First off, he works at a running store= Little income. One should look at it from his perspective.

He's a relatively competitive runner, as he won the race, nor was it on a fast course. A win is a win.

In all honesty, he had a paid for bib number, hammered out 26.2 miles, and most importantly, won the race. Do we really need to be so political correct, and such sticklers to DQ him? It's not always a bad thing to make an exception here and there, this is not the G'D Olympics were talking about, just some local elites that work full time jobs.

Why make an exception for Scott Downard? What is his exceptional circumstance? If he works at a running store he knows how road races work, and that this would be an issue once he crossed the finish line - he still didn't care.

Why didn't he ask for a comped entry if he is competitive and poor?

He is a bandit - plain & simple.