SMJO wrote:
Moron.
3:30 was "good enough" to win most of the following Games?
You think?
The transitional era from dirt to synthetic encompassed the careers of a number of notable athletes.
Make a list that shows how many of them dropped huge chunks of time from their bests just by switching surfaces.
It should be really easy.
What don't you understand about 4 seconds? It's that simple.
ventolin^3 wrote:
bannister was long before my time - obviously knock off 4s for dirt track & maybe another 1 - 2 for non-ideal pacing
i'd say as fast as 3'53 in the '70s
keino, obviously had race of his life in mexico
people may laugh, but using NCAA altitude tables + wind/altitude calculator give his 3'34 as ~ 3'27 !?
if you use some logic & assume my suggested 3'24/3'25 for ryun in '67 had slipped to 3'30 ( sea-level ) by mexico because of the chronic fatigue syndrome following his mononucleosis ( 3'30 shape being good enough to win most of following games but still huge drop from his '67 shape - remember, he coudn't even make top 3 of the 800 trials going in as wr holder ! ), then keino beating him by ~ 3's again comes out at 3'27/3'28 - he reminds me a lot of silas kiplagat nowdays, albeit slightly superior on that day
I never realized Ryun had CFS. How long did he suffer from it? That would explain the deterioration in his performance, as his cardiac output would've suffered. If he truly had CFS, I'm surprised he could perform as well as he did.
That said, I think the best you can say about Ryun was that his 3:51 was worth a second per lap. Any other extrapolation is mere speculation and a stretch. Was he the greatest middle distance runner ever? I have no idea, but he was the greatest US prep middle distance runner ever, was way ahead of his time, ushered in the era of sub-3:50 milers by making it seem possible, and definitely belongs in the conversation. Personally, if he were running today, but training the same way, I think he would have the American record. But, again, that's mere speculation.
Alan Webb has a faster time than Ryun in every single distance. Indoor and Outdoor.
End. Of. Thread.
How many medals does Webb have?
That said, there have been many MD runners in the world better than Ryun.
Old Camp Goer wrote:
Alan Webb has a faster time than Ryun in every single distance. Indoor and Outdoor.
End. Of. Thread.
Yes, on much faster synthetic tracks with modern training technology = big difference.
SMJO wrote:
Moron.
3:30 was "good enough" to win most of the following Games?
You think?
The transitional era from dirt to synthetic encompassed the careers of a number of notable athletes.
Make a list that shows how many of them dropped huge chunks of time from their bests just by switching surfaces.
It should be really easy.
And it didn't happen, outside of the 1968 Olympics at Mexico City, and then only in the sprints/jumps/field events and MAYBE in the 800.
I will preface this by saying that I'm personally a huge fan of Peter Sell, I'd easily put him up with Ryun overall.
That said, Snell's 800 WR carries a big asterisk, since so little is known about the surface and configuration of the track. We Americans think of grass as slow, but Aussies I've known who have competed Down Under on grass rave about it's qualities when properly prepared. Since the track was built purely for running purposes, we have no assurance about curve radius, which can definitely affect a track's speed. Finally, his race was rabbited, a rarity in the day. Although the rabbit went through too fast, it probably conferred an advantage that Ryun never experienced.
Also, Snell in the '60's is in my mind the first professional runner, working a comfortable PR job for a tobacco company, with one of the greatest coaches of all time at his full availability, as well as the training group that went along with that. Again, advantages that were foreign to Ryun when struggling post-collegiately. Finally, Snell never had to deal with the Kenyans in the Olympics as an athletic force, much less at altitude. Kudos to both athletes, who each made the best of their talents with the resources then available.