tony sandoval was the best us marathoner!!
tony sandoval was the best us marathoner!!
I believe I read in his book years ago that the second half of that Fukuoka race was coming back into the wind. So I wouldn't call that fading.
Neither would I call it hanging on.
Is the question the 1972 Shorter, with resources (medical, financial, etc.) or a 2013 Shorter who certianly would have had massive sponsorships and the very best training, and medical resources at his disposal.
If it were a 2013 Shorter than he would destroy the field. A '72 Shorter would finish in the top 2.
Frank Shorter's technique was superb. He had a feathery stride with a foot stroke well beneath his center of gravity, enabling him to create speed momentum and hold it. It is a stride similar to Geoffrey Mutai's, superior to Hall's (by a bit), and Meb's and Ritz's (by a lot). Mutai is physically stronger than Shorter, and generates more spinal torque thru his trunk than Shorter. Mutai bests Hall, as he would Shorter. But, never underestimate a champion's drive to excel. It is the fuel deep in the furnace. One year out from today's race, Frank would have taken that champion's drive and found a way to make himself a more powerful runner. And he would be very hard to beat. Imagine Hall, Shorter, Meb and Ritz together 15 miles in to today's competion, striving together for excellence. Their motivations are fascinating. Motivation is the personal element. We identify with the athlete whose motivation more closely matches our own. I focus on that, and inspire myself.
FogRunner wrote:
Frank Shorter's technique was superb. He had a feathery stride with a foot stroke well beneath his center of gravity, enabling him to create speed momentum and hold it. It is a stride similar to Geoffrey Mutai's, superior to Hall's (by a bit), and Meb's and Ritz's (by a lot). Mutai is physically stronger than Shorter, and generates more spinal torque thru his trunk than Shorter. Mutai bests Hall, as he would Shorter. But, never underestimate a champion's drive to excel. It is the fuel deep in the furnace. One year out from today's race, Frank would have taken that champion's drive and found a way to make himself a more powerful runner. And he would be very hard to beat. Imagine Hall, Shorter, Meb and Ritz together 15 miles in to today's competion, striving together for excellence. Their motivations are fascinating. Motivation is the personal element. We identify with the athlete whose motivation more closely matches our own. I focus on that, and inspire myself.
Great post. That says it all.
Thank you. I forgot Abdi!!! The Black Cactus
Made his 4th Olympic team today.
troof be told wrote:
excoastranger wrote:He also ran the track Trials and finished fifth in a WR 10,000 at the Munich Games.
How do you finish 5th in a WR?
So sorry. Bad combination of my not being perfectly clear and you having poor reading comprehension or being a dick. Perhaps I should have written he finished fifth behind Viren's WR in the 10,000.
Frank was fabulous, a bonafide 2:09 without the epo. With epo? Maybe 2:05 --- but he wouldn't have cheated.
excoastranger wrote:
troof be told wrote:How do you finish 5th in a WR?
So sorry. Bad combination of my not being perfectly clear and you having poor reading comprehension or being a dick. Perhaps I should have written he finished fifth behind Viren's WR in the 10,000.
Yep, that's what you should have written.
I believe you are thinking of Bill Rodgers. He was the one with the minor injury going in to Montreal. The quote I mentioned was, I believe, in the Olympic preview of Sports Illustrated that Kenny Moore wrote. Something to the effect that Shorter wanted to run "much harder than in Munich...really wanted to burn one. Moore mentions that a pace of 4:48/mile would result in a 2:05:50, Shorter nods in "unsurprised agreement." I just looked it up at Sports Illustrated Vault. July 19, 1976 issue.
Short Franker is not a whiner but a winner.
Perhaps he would make the team, but the competition was stiff.
Top 5 probably.
Wondering man wrote:
I think he would have a good chance of making the team- he would have been good for sub 2:10 in a paced race on a good course so had the wheels and was a great racer.
Had he had access to the current training and nutrition modalities (he ran a 2:10 marathon off pizza and beer for peat's sake), there is no doubt that Shorter could have gone 2:08. Shorter had much better form than Hall and was pretty damn formidable on the track with a 8:20+ 2m win over Dixon in '77.
Bill Huntington wrote:
I believe you are thinking of Bill Rodgers. He was the one with the minor injury going in to Montreal. The quote I mentioned was, I believe, in the Olympic preview of Sports Illustrated that Kenny Moore wrote. Something to the effect that Shorter wanted to run "much harder than in Munich...really wanted to burn one. Moore mentions that a pace of 4:48/mile would result in a 2:05:50, Shorter nods in "unsurprised agreement." I just looked it up at Sports Illustrated Vault. July 19, 1976 issue.
I remember the article as well and the reference to Shorter is indeed correct.
Scott56 wrote:
He went out in 1:03 in Fukuoka 72 right after the Olympics and held on and ran his PR. If you watched the 76 trials, which were held 2 months before the Olympics, you would agree that him and Bill would have run 2:09 if they would have pressed to the line, but they did back off. It's unfortunate he lost a second gold to a doped up East German who he didn't even know. I agree it's a different game internationally, but I believe the only American runner now who would be hard for him to beat in his prime would be Ryan Hall. The Let's Run generation of runners owe a great debt to Shorter for what he did to help popularize running and to phase out shamatuerism and enable elite runners to earn respectable livings as professionals. Shorter never ran Boston in his prime because by most accounts they would not even spring for a plane ticket for the Olympic Champion to run there.
Yes Scott, and he and BR and others did it with exquisite simplicity.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1091139/index.htmwejo wrote:
I heard Frank today in the media room. VIdeo here:
Video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftX0ybZG5as#t=74I've tagged the video to start at the right point. 1:14 in he says: "Bill and I were running 2:09 pace in 76 and we got so far ahead and just backed off....If you're smart enough and fit enough to be out there with a lead you're not going to press it."
Now Frank's pr is 2:10:30. I thought he also said he went out in 1:03 or 1:04 that year. 1:03 seems way fast.
troof be told wrote:
excoastranger wrote:He also ran the track Trials and finished fifth in a WR 10,000 at the Munich Games.
How do you finish 5th in a WR?
The winner was from Venus. Second through fourth went to Mars which won the team title in a landslide.
Uh that again wrote:
Scott56 wrote:In don't believe Frank ever whined about Cierpinski. It is a fact that he did dope.
It is not a fact. It was never proven. Strong evidence, yes.
I believe it has been pretty well acknowledged that Cierpinski was doping along with the rest of the EG athletes at the time. They've interviewed countless athletes and coaches from that era and most admitted to EPO use. I don't think it's a secret anymore. I can't imagine that weren't any EG athletes that were not using since it was widly distributed, encouraged, and perhaps even forced by the system.
Bill Huntington wrote:
I believe you are thinking of Bill Rodgers. He was the one with the minor injury going in to Montreal. The quote I mentioned was, I believe, in the Olympic preview of Sports Illustrated that Kenny Moore wrote. Something to the effect that Shorter wanted to run "much harder than in Munich...really wanted to burn one. Moore mentions that a pace of 4:48/mile would result in a 2:05:50, Shorter nods in "unsurprised agreement." I just looked it up at Sports Illustrated Vault. July 19, 1976 issue.
Shorter has said that he found out after the fact that he had a stree fracture in Montreal.