Right off the top of my head? Currently mo farah and geb in his prime.
Right off the top of my head? Currently mo farah and geb in his prime.
ummmm..? wrote:Right off the top of my head? Currently mo farah and geb in his prime
the ~ 1'48 claim is strong for kennster with more evidence from komen :
http://www.coolrunning.com.au/forums/index.php?showtopic=9320&st=25Komen (who is a hell of a lot faster than Buster over 1500, 1609.34, 3000 and 5000) did a 800TT and only ran 1:47.3 and he was flat out. A week later he ran 7:20 for the 3K!
the line i've claimed for him in rieti was
~ 50.9 / 1'47.1 -> 3'29.9 , 4'45.3 , 7'19.6 , 12'37.0 , 26'20.2
( the 1'47.3 was obviously a hand-time & unlikely a "perfect race"
his 7'20 actual was run on tired legs with a 13'00 just 2/7 before & he did set off too quick in his 3k
he may actually have been in better 5k shape in rieti than 12'39wr the next year & i certainly believe he was quicker 1500 guy in '97 ( probably shifted some training to it ) )
komen's claimed 800tt is faster than kennster's
it woud be logical to assume his open 400 was also faster, albeit posters are dazzled by kennster's litany of quick last laps in 12'50+ & assume he had tremendous open 400
he didn't
komen woud probably have beaten him in an open 400 )
The drug accusations are pathetic. Such envious little mediocrities you are- you can't just recognize talent and give the compliment.
Reality check223 wrote:
yeah, i've no doubt that i could run as fast as him if I wanted to. But I don't want to because my focus is on the mile (and other things in life which are not compatible with 5k training at the moment).
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHa.
"Yeah, I could do it, I just don't want to."
Wow, delusional poster of the year!
Well done, sir, well done.
Its his years of intelligent training, and until you guys realize that you will never be fast.
http://www.tracktalk.net/showthread.php?t=7931BRG/253 wrote:
The drug accusations are pathetic. Such envious little mediocrities you are- you can't just recognize talent and give the compliment.
Poor Reader wrote:
Its his years of intelligent training, and until you guys realize that you will never be fast.
Yeah, I guess Sileshi Sihine, Tariku Bekele and Eliud Kipchoge just doesn't train very intelligently.
No one here should be shocked if world record holders in track turn out to have doped. They certainly have all had to beat many subsequently proven dopers like Mourhit and Saidi Sief. I think that it is entirely credible to think that Bekele knew he was not in shape to win gold at Daegu in that weather and so he dropped out of pride in preserving his unbeaten record at 10000m, which view is supported by the fact that he still stated that he was unbeaten in any 10000m that he had finished. He was in 27 or high 26 shape at the time, however. And then he continued his training, continued to get back into shape after a long injury layoff, and ran a time 23 or 24 seconds slower than his pr in great conditions. I don't see the reason to invoke drugs for that particular performance, and of course he was tested.
Consider This wrote:
Poor Reader wrote:Its his years of intelligent training, and until you guys realize that you will never be fast.
Yeah, I guess Sileshi Sihine, Tariku Bekele and Eliud Kipchoge just doesn't train very intelligently.
They run nearly the same times, all being faster than americans. Not all training will lead to world records, my point is that their training is far beyond what us american collegiate runners even think of doing. Think Galen Rupp! Think Farah! Salazar did nothing but change their training and boom their times drop by nearly 90 seconds.
Freelove wrote:
Reality check223 wrote:It's still much slower than his personal best. It's not that hard to come back quickly to personal subpar times. Haven't we all experienced this at one point or another? That world leading time used to be about his tempo run pace. Not that wild that he regained enough fitness to his old tempo times.
He wasn't just coming back from a break, though, it was months of injury. According to his agent he gets in shape quickly. The only thing that would make you improve as quickly as KB did this year is blood doping.
Think about it: if he was in, say, 26:50 shape at Daegu he would have been 3rd at best. Instead he dropped out. Three weeks later he's looking like he could've beaten Farah easily. If he had that fitness, why didn't he contend in Daegu? If he didn't, how did he drop 30+ seconds off his 10k in 3 weeks?
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Is it only Americans that can have a bad race, not feel well, be under the weather? Bekele has been very consistent through the years, but in Degeu he was off. you are drawing some pretty big conclusions. If you look at his past, he's always been dominant. There has never been a big jump in ability.
Reality check223 wrote:
jimjamesrunner wrote:Well naturally getting more out of mileage than other people would be talent.
what is talent? and why are people so determined to attribute an individual's success to it? it's a weak mentality.
Are you really that naive to think that these top athletes aren't very talented. Any of us who have trained in groups could easily see the talented runners. I ran with a guy who barely did anything for training yet could kick all our asses at 800m or 1500m no matter what we did.
Poor Reader wrote:
Its his years of intelligent training, and until you guys realize that you will never be fast.
and neither would he, or he'd be out there being a world-beater instead of on this forum delusionally beating his penis.
eh. wrote:
Jesse was indeed a friend wrote:
Reality check223 wrote:WTF are you talking about? Kenenisa did NEVER did tempo runs at 4:17 per 1600m.
"did NEVER did". Do people with "superior intellect" write like that?
They may indeed when they are being rather cavalier about responding to mental midgets almost as if they are wiping dust off a desk as they settle their thoughts on matters more worthy of their formidable intellects. When one is solving the problems of humanity and one is publishing for posterity (although indeed it troubled Freud that the dinosaurs became instinct, and therefore WTF is posterity), a trivial exchange regarding Bekele will not demand the requisite proofreading which would have extinguished an error such as you point out. A brilliant mind (which you ostensibly lack), would recognize that carelessness is no barometer with which to measure genius, and does not correlate with such.
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"Fool!You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia,' but only slightly less well known is this: 'Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!'"
W. Shawn wrote:
eh. wrote:
Jesse was indeed a friend wrote:"did NEVER did". Do people with "superior intellect" write like that?
They may indeed when they are being rather cavalier about responding to mental midgets almost as if they are wiping dust off a desk as they settle their thoughts on matters more worthy of their formidable intellects. When one is solving the problems of humanity and one is publishing for posterity (although indeed it troubled Freud that the dinosaurs became instinct, and therefore WTF is posterity), a trivial exchange regarding Bekele will not demand the requisite proofreading which would have extinguished an error such as you point out. A brilliant mind (which you ostensibly lack), would recognize that carelessness is no barometer with which to measure genius, and does not correlate with such.
_______________________________________________
"Fool!You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia,' but only slightly less well known is this: 'Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line!'"
Lets hope that you didn´t shit in your pants from the effort.
not counting morning sessions i assume. add another 7*10
easy miles for a total of 150mpw.
So, did Michael Jordan just practice that much harder than everyone or did the fact that he is a 6'6" black man with incredible hand/eye coordination contribute to his dominance. I know basketball is not distance running, but the point is that talent does exist.
You can't tell me there arent several hundred maybe thousands of runners that train just as hard and smart as Kenenisa. Training could possibly get an average person to a D1 school and maybe even Olympic trials. Talent separates an average D1 runner and Bekele.
lol lol lol lol wrote:
You don't. You take a runner who can run in the 27s, pump him full of drugs, and VOILA, WRs.
Yes, it happens as magically as you just describe.
Heres a workout Kenenisa Bekele did around 10 days before his 2007 10k world championship win, 16x (400 in 52-54, rest, 200 in 24-25) w/ 90sec-2min rest b/w everything all at 2300m altitude. Besides years and years of training, thousands of hours poured into running since he was little, Bekele has an enormous amount of talent!!
You're right that "talent" is a rather amorphous concept, but to claim that it plays no role in determining success in distance running (or any form of athletic competition) strains credulity.
It's well-known that certain physiological factors (proportion of slow- to fast-twitch muscle fibers chief among them) underlie distance running performance, and that these factors are genetically determined. How do we know they're genetically determined? For one, because they show the sorts of variation within a population (including among genetically related individuals) that one would predict if they WERE genetically determined. Also because either (a) they don't change through the lifespan, or (b) they do change, but they change in different proportions in different people in response to the exact same training stimuli (controlled laboratory studies have confirmed this).
Think of it sort of like height: One's diet in early life contributes a great deal to one's adult height, but genetics still plays a large causal role in determining how tall someone is. Genetics determines the range within which one's height will eventually fall, while other factors determine where in that range someone ends up.
So yes, "talent" is thrown around rather loosely and is intended to capture many things, but I think what most people have in mind is something like "genetically determined substrates of athletic performance" as outlined above. Hardly a problematic or undefined notion.
ggg wrote:
not counting morning sessions i assume. add another 7*10
easy miles for a total of 150mpw.
No, that's counting morning sessions, as he said he did 13 runs per week. I've never heard of Ethiopians going three times per day.