Poll: How old are Cheserek and Futsum?

It matters wrote:

I have no problem with foreigners running at U.S. high schools, but the age issue matters. I graduated at 17 years and 9 months as a 9:10 guy in the 3200 (with nearly 30 seconds improvement in each of the previous 2 years and still only running 45-55 per week). I was not even close to qualifying for Footlocker that year. And I was recruited, but not by the top schools and certainly didn't have any scholarship offers. Another year puts me sub-9 and to Footlocker, another 2 years (like Futsum!) maybe makes me a national contender. And that scenario is paved with scholarship money to top schools. Who knows? Of course, maybe it doesn't happen that way. But to suggest that it's a level playing field and that it has no impact is silly.

Futsum should be a young sophomore in college, not beating up on high school runners.

Then it shouldn't matter what you did in High school anyway. Reid Coolsaet did next to nothing in HS, had NO college scholarship offers, yet has gone on to run 13.21, 27.56 and 2h10 (under less than perfect conditions and stopping for a dump). It's what you make of it later that matters. People have to want to run for their own personal development. It is the whole issue of scholarships that holds so many Americnas back, as if they can't develop without one. BS. If you want it badly enough you will find a way to get it done, or you really weren't serious about it afterall.

"At least the typical non-runner could get behind Marc Davis by being able to read an article and pronounce his name afterward. How many folks at the water cooler monday will be talking of the exploits of that "cheese-ez-er-uk?" kid from kenya?"

Yeah, I'm sure it's the names. I mean no one talks about some NFL guys called T. J. Houshmandzadeh or Ndamukong Suh either.

Say what you want but if my daughter went to the same school as these guys and there was an athletics awards banquet for them, I'd feel pretty awkward.

I think if you asked some domestic pros today they would say they enjoy the greater competition.

Even so, an interesting question about whether we should or should not allow people to run against domestic HS students. I would submit the following; if you go over to kenya around the kenyan championships time for xc (or even track I suspect) a foreigner can run in the race. They don't care about nationality. They only use the top Kenyan finishers. In fact some european juniors and seniors have done so.

12 and 24 respectively

crazy person wrote:

Nobody is fudging their age so they can go and win the world youth championships.

Please find something more useful to complain about.

I'm not commenting about these particularly cases, because I don't know, but you do realise that fudging ages in order to win world youth champions (and other age group events) happens all the time.

Oh, and guess what, it nearly always happens to be athletes from a certain part of the world (or bought athletes from a certain part of the world.)

I would still hazard a guess these guys are overage too, but they probably didn't do it to win championships. They would pick an age when the first arrive that will help the maximise the benefit they can garner from the American education system. If an 18 year old turns up with no papers, he is better off saying he's 15 and getting a full HS education whilst being the 'appropriate' age.

If they're foreign and especially from Africa; they wait until they're extremely good and then they're ALWAYS "17".

I was commenting that in these particular cases the two boys did not lie about their age to gain an advantage in competition, unlike documented cases of age cheating at world youth championships. I am aware that ages have been intentionally fudged at international age group events, and I certainly don't agree with that practice. However, I don't believe Futsum and Cheserek have intentionally lied about their ages win high school cross country. Like many other Hoosiers, I've seen Futsum progress through the past few years, and I have no reason to believe he is age cheating. His story is well-known.

It matters wrote:

I have no problem with foreigners running at U.S. high schools, but the age issue matters. I graduated at 17 years and 9 months as a 9:10 guy in the 3200 (with nearly 30 seconds improvement in each of the previous 2 years and still only running 45-55 per week). I was not even close to qualifying for Footlocker that year. And I was recruited, but not by the top schools and certainly didn't have any scholarship offers. Another year puts me sub-9 and to Footlocker, another 2 years (like Futsum!) maybe makes me a national contender. And that scenario is paved with scholarship money to top schools.

This question is, how much have you improved since you graduated? If you'd spent less time feeling sorry for yourself and more running, you might eventually have become competitive with these guys.

The self-pity here is particularly disgusting when you consider that many of these guys come to this country after being orphaned or politically persecuted in their own country.

It matters wrote:

I have no problem with foreigners running at U.S. high schools, but the age issue matters. I graduated at 17 years and 9 months as a 9:10 guy in the 3200 (with nearly 30 seconds improvement in each of the previous 2 years and still only running 45-55 per week). I was not even close to qualifying for Footlocker that year. And I was recruited, but not by the top schools and certainly didn't have any scholarship offers. Another year puts me sub-9 and to Footlocker, another 2 years (like Futsum!) maybe makes me a national contender. And that scenario is paved with scholarship money to top schools. Who knows? Of course, maybe it doesn't happen that way. But to suggest that it's a level playing field and that it has no impact is silly.

Futsum should be a young sophomore in college, not beating up on high school runners.

No, Futsum is the age of many college freshmen, not sophomores. Also, he is well within the allowable range for a senior in high school and for a competitor in Foot Locker. There are always going to be people that are older or younger and that can't be avoided. Blame your parents for not waiting another year to start you in school. Or instead of blaming others you could think about the positives of graduating from college earlier (such as accumulating wealth at a younger age and retiring at a younger age). Blaming your shortcomings on "the system" gets old and doesn't accomplish anything.

It matters wrote:

Futsum should be a young sophomore in college, not beating up on high school runners.

Kanye North wrote:

False. Futsum should be a senior in high school.

..... and he is a senior in high school.

Technically neither of you is correct.

According to the DOB provided by the Youth Club Nationals site, Futsum is currently 19, or will turn 19 before graduating and entering college

The typical US high schooler turns sometime during his/her senior year of high school. Don't even TRY to argue this point, because it's officially verified in 47 US states. Those idiotic people complaining that they graduated when they were 17 years old and 4 months or whatnot simply graduated early and are complaining that everyone else isn't like them.

Since the typical US high schooler will be at least 18 before his/her freshman year of college, and Futsum will be at least 19 before his/her freshman year of college, Futsum is approximately 1 year old for his level of competition.

To put it simply, he's like Verzbicas, except he didn't fix the age problem by graduating early.

Seyta wrote:

Since the typical US high schooler will be at least 18 before his/her freshman year of college, and Futsum will be at least 19 before his/her freshman year of college, Futsum is approximately 1 year old for his level of competition.

To put it simply, he's like Verzbicas, except he didn't fix the age problem by graduating early.

It's not his 'official' age that people are bothered about, it's his actual age. But this is something we don't know.

Anyway, Bekele was 20 yo when he starting winning 4K and 12K doubles in the world x-country champs.

How many Western males of any age have won a world championship since the 1980s?

Age is irrelevant, at least when you get to college age.

It matters wrote:

I have no problem with foreigners running at U.S. high schools, but the age issue matters. I graduated at 17 years and 9 months as a 9:10 guy in the 3200 (with nearly 30 seconds improvement in each of the previous 2 years and still only running 45-55 per week). I was not even close to qualifying for Footlocker that year. And I was recruited, but not by the top schools and certainly didn't have any scholarship offers. Another year puts me sub-9 and to Footlocker, another 2 years (like Futsum!) maybe makes me a national contender. And that scenario is paved with scholarship money to top schools. Who knows? Of course, maybe it doesn't happen that way. But to suggest that it's a level playing field and that it has no impact is silly.

Futsum should be a young sophomore in college, not beating up on high school runners.

re: "should be a young sophomore in college" - More like a typical college freshman.

About 20% of U.S high school students graduate at age 19, which makes Futsum out of the norm, but not unusual.

Kenyans and Ethiopians are always older 2 to 4 years older.

Kenyans and Ethiopians are always older 2 to 4 years older.

ThatEqualGuy wrote:

If they're foreign and especially from Africa, they wait...

That's about the dumbest, narrow-minded and most revealing fragment of a statement I've read on LR. Do you really think runners in Africa, or any other country for that matter, consider themselves "foreigners"?

And while you're at it, how about withdrawing contributions from foreign scientists to metrics that underly US university league tables? Perhaps when all the "foreigners" are gone, Americans will again win all the races, get all the scholarships, and always get tenure. The last foreigner to leave will kindly switch off the lights for you.

Kenyans and Ethiopians are always 2 to 4 years older

Querfeldein wrote:

ThatEqualGuy wrote:

If they're foreign and especially from Africa, they wait...

That's about the dumbest, narrow-minded and most revealing fragment of a statement I've read on LR...

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