No problem, Guppy, I shouldn't have been such a jerk about it, but sometimes I can't help myself.
No problem, Guppy, I shouldn't have been such a jerk about it, but sometimes I can't help myself.
I've know a lot of middle distance runners over the years and there were very, very few that could run a 4:00m with an 800 PR over 1:50. The majority were in the 1:48-1:49 range. And that's the damn cold hard truth of it.
Jesse was indeed a friend wrote:
No problem, Guppy, I shouldn't have been such a jerk about it, but sometimes I can't help myself.
I hope you're not the former "Jesse was a friend" in disguise. Just sayin.
Since Daniel's tables comes from the data of many, many runners, a 1:50 guy can only run about 4:03, being well trained in both events. It takes more of a 1:48-1:49.
These threads always end up being about the few exceptions, when the OP is asking in general. IN GENERAL, to run 4:00, yes you'd have to have the ability to run better than 1:50.
A mile is 1609 m ( to nearest metre) not 1600
not rocket science wrote:
Average 800m time of a 4:00 miler is 2:00 ;) DUHHH
morning runner wrote:
Since Daniel's tables comes from the data of many, many runners, a 1:50 guy can only run about 4:03, being well trained in both events. It takes more of a 1:48-1:49.
Please cite these many many runners?
Titan wrote:
Didnt Al Sal run 4:00?
4:01
well maybe this is b/c of all the screwing around that malmo always chides me for, but 1:55.....3 diff times. also did it twice at the end of slow (4:07 and 4:13) miles.
so, 800pb= 1:55, 1500/mile pb= 3:40/3:58
maybe i'm an anomaly, maybe I just don't have a clue how to run an 800. think the best i ever did a 400 was 52? but that was in practice...."we talkin bout practice, man, practice!"
cheers, dude-
somerandomdude wrote:
well maybe this is b/c of all the screwing around that malmo always chides me for, but 1:55.....3 diff times. also did it twice at the end of slow (4:07 and 4:13) miles.
so, 800pb= 1:55, 1500/mile pb= 3:40/3:58
maybe i'm an anomaly, maybe I just don't have a clue how to run an 800. think the best i ever did a 400 was 52? but that was in practice...."we talkin bout practice, man, practice!"
cheers, dude-
And what did you run for 5000 and 10000? Because I can tell you point blank that the mile was not your best event.
1'47/1'49
joaquim cruz wrote:
1'47/1'49
That's exactly fvcking right. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. The average high level middle distance runner is not going to run a 4:00 level mile with a 1:53 800 PR.
thanks for yet another analysis. spot on.
ventolin^3 wrote:
offering some numbers for the topic ( you can reject them as is your whim )
for a 4'00.00 guy with various 400s
56 -> 1'55.7 , 3'43.0 , 7'39.7 , 13'02.9
i'll stop there
56.0 is likely limit with concomitant 1'55.7
the 51/1'50.7 & 52/1'51.7 are around the median of that list & for no strong reason other than that, i'd start about there
Ventolin, there has NEVER been a guy who could only run 56 for 400m who could run 1:55.7, doubling up 57.85. It has NEVER happened. Anybody who can run 1:55.7 can run a 400m in 55 seconds or faster.
pre did something like 1:54 and 3:54
Jesse was indeed a friend wrote:Ventolin, there has NEVER been a guy who could only run 56 for 400m who could run 1:55.7, doubling up 57.85. It has NEVER happened. Anybody who can run 1:55.7 can run a 400m in 55 seconds or faster.
there certainly have, only they don't run 400/800/mile
i realised there are guys with even better endurance than tergat ( tergat needed speed to go sub-7'30 & sub-12'50 )
the limit maybe a 27'00 african with a "proper" 5k of 13'10 ( like tergat but more speed squeezed out of him ) - i'm sure these guys exist
13'10 / 27'00 -> 57.4 , 1'58.0 , 4'03.8
ok, this predicts outside 4'00, but close
you just proportion the line for 4'00 ->
~ 56.5 / 1'56.2 -> 4'00
the 13'10/27'00 guy has endurance characteristics of a ~ 56/1'56 guy albeit he woud theoretically be too slow to go 4'00, but more like 4'03
According to Jack Daniels Running Formula, if they switched training focus from mile to 800m, the time they could achieve would be ~1:49 (Table 3.3). I have always heard 1:48-1:49 is possible for a 3:59 milerAccording to Peter Coes Better Training for Distance Runners, Second Edition (Table 5.13), the time association for a 1500 m guy would be 3:42.2 (1500 m), and 1:46.7. The well accepted formula for converting mile to 1500m is to divide by 1.08. Peter Coes The formula takes the 1500m time and multiplies by 0.48 to get the 800m time. I don't agree with that formula, as it predicts that El G's 1500 m record is equivalent to a 1:38.8
the avg Moe wrote:
I'm not talking the bare-minimum 800m time a guy can run to run 4:00 in the mile, I'm talking what is the average 800m time of a 4:00 guy. I would guess it's 1:51 but I don't know.
240/110 = 2.1818
(1:50/4:00) minutes converted to seconds.
2:30 800m = 5:26 1609m
2:20 800m = 5:05 1609m
2:10 800m = 4:44 1609m
2:00 800m = 4:22 1609m
1:50 800m = 4:00 1609m
I think 1:50.00 - 1:51.00 is a reasonable number to tell your athletes to strive for if they want to break 4:00.
low 1:49s and into the 1:48s... you're going to start seeing pretty good mile times.
Vent –
What would your line of fit be for 1200m w/ an 800m time of 149.3 and a 1500m time of 350.8?
Here are some stats from uk:
http://www.thepowerof10.info/rankings/rankinglist.aspx?event=800&agegroup=ALL&sex=M&year=2011
You could get a good average there. Someone else can go through them, maybe the op as asked the question!
I don't think using 800m and mile equivilent times is really the proper way to go about this as very few people are able to equally maximize their ability in those to two events and great 800m times are usually produced by 800m specialists who aren't nearly as good at 1500m/mile. Many exceptions come to mind of course, but most of the time, 800m specialists aren't nearly as good at the 1500m/mile. So saying 4:00 milers should be 1:48 800m runners just because they're equivilent times is nonsense. The average 4:00 miler is likely to be a mile specialist and is likely to be not as good at distances below and above that distance, so they're likely going to be slower than 1:48 at 800m though not hugely so, so 1:49-1:51.low is probably more reasonable.
Also, because it's generally easier for a 5k specialist to run a fast mile than it is an 800m specialist (think KD) to run a fast mile, I would think that the average 4:00 miler would be more distance oriented than speed oriented, further skewing the average 800m time to the slower end of the range.
I would say 1:49 high to 1:51 low would be the average.