If That Wasn't The Greatest Marathon Ever Run, What Was

STEEPLE SUX wrote:

Weldon,

Please mention the dollar amount that this race spent in advertising this week. Your statement was ignorant and almost seems like you may be getting paid to say it.

Ha. Forgot to mention NY did do some advertising on letsrun this week.

Under no stretch of the imagination was I saying that was the greatest marathon ever. In terms of drama it didn't have a lot at the end. I was wondering if that was the greatest marathon performance by a man.

Rojo has pointed out Beijing 2008 as being possibly better. Off the top of my head I'd have to agree. But I'm more impressed with this than Makau's WR.

spectacular spectator wrote:

I wouldn't call it the greatest marathon ever run, but I will say that it was one of the most impressive performances I've ever seen.

G. Mutai looked almost smooth and relaxed in the last 5k after blowing away a super-talented field.

Put it this way: I think Mutai *could* have run the greatest marathon ever today if he had to.

I agree with your last sentence and think that is what Weldon meant.

Do you thin Geoffrey Mutai would have run 80 seconds faster on a pancake flat course with rabbits? I think most people would say yes.

As for us always calling it "the greatest" blank ever, I do agree with you. We do do that but that's the fun thing about running.

It's hard to not see something so spectacular and not think it was an unbeatable performance.

Let's play Fatansy Marathon 101.

Take Makau's 2:03:38, Mutai's 2:03:02, wanjiru's Beijing run or Mutai's run today and put them on the same course on the same day and the weird thing to think about is that one of them has to finish 4th.

Sammy Wanjiru at the 2008 Olympic Games is still the greatest by a whole lot. You put the same Wanjiru here from the summer 2008 race here today in these near perfect conditions and Sammy wins.

99 chicago was a good one. I am only 27 but have been following close since 99 2000. With that said; I know there have to be some good ones before that.

i'd have to agree with this as being probably the greatest M performance ever

on tv, i've seen good number of the american marathons of past 10y & few sporadic ones prior to that, but lot of the big euro ones in past 30y on satellite ( either live or highlights package )

geoffey jogged the 1st 1/2, momentarily made a surge, settled back & only pushed it last 10k

he beat the london champ of 2"04'40 fame by ~ 1'30

you have to assume that manny was in better shape than london as he knew he was racing geoffey & woud need to be in better shape to contend

add together :

easy running for nearly 35k + beating a manny who shouda been better shape than london + lack of pacers + etc & i reckon you are talking

mid-2"02

NativeSon wrote:IF Ak doesn't pick him, I'll throw a tantrum.

A temper tantrum?

ventolin^3 wrote:

you have to assume that manny was in better shape than london as he knew he was racing geoffey & woud need to be in better shape to contend

mid-2"02

I agree with mid/high 2:02 however what you say above is BS:

Do you really think E. Mutai prepared better for this than for London BECAUSE he knew G. was running? Like before London he thought "Oh let's train a bit less, because I don't have to beat G."?

eh ?

learn something

1) he's facing a guy who went 2"03'02

wind or no wind that day, that told manny he was facing an absolute beast & high-2"04 ( a slower than kwambai/kibet time wasn't going to cut it )

2) geoffey dominated the kenyan x-country this year & on that basis was probably acknowledged as their best over-distance to 10k runner

3) the winner out of the 2 mutais goes to london

The most thrilling race I've seen was 2010 Chicago. Everyone should go watch the last 10km of that race again.

In 2008, Vienna was run in 2:06 in even hotter conditions. The fact that Wanjiru did not break free until very late(24?) shows it was not out of this world. Comparaing these different runs is impossible.

did vienna have same humidity/smog as bejiing ?

the bejing run wasn't just about the temperature

( i've just checked : vienna in '06 was won in 2"08'20 )

Let's play Fatansy Marathon 101.

Take Makau's 2:03:38, Mutai's 2:03:02, wanjiru's Beijing run or Mutai's run today and put them on the same course on the same day and the weird thing to think about is that one of them has to finish 4th.

Only that you're talking about three guys.

Anyway, Makau would get hammered by Wanjiru and Mutai.

"The greatest marathon ever run? That's easy. It was by Pheidippides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheidippides

" (/quote)

Thanks, like we didn't know who Pheidippides was. please.

Also I look at today's race as the best performance ever. 2:05 on a course which used to be considered one of the slowest major courses is incredible, without a tailwind. However, it seems to me that no one would be putting these types of performances together if it wasn't for what Wanjiru did in Beijing. He showed everyone that the human body was capable of so much more than what Haile G and Tergat were doing before them.

STEEPLE SUX wrote:

Weldon,

Please mention the dollar amount that this race spent in advertising this week. Your statement was ignorant and almost seems like you may be getting paid to say it.

I think the NYM doesn't finish in the same place that it starts. Which raises the questions, what is the elevation difference between the start and the finish, how far apart are they, and what was the wind speed today.

Even if the NYM does finish at the same place that it starts, it is still nowhere near one of the greatest of all time. It's not even anywhere close to being one of the fastest times of the year. Maybe it's about the 50th greatest of all time. However I do feel it is Geoffrey Mutai's greatest marathon of all time.

I think what we are seeing now is more athletes willing to push themselves to the absolute limit to reach the fastest times possible. Everyone is acting as pacesetter now. There doesnt really need to be any pacesetters anymore as anyone of the top 10 will push it from the gun. The marathon didnt use to be like this. Before it was either jog the first half then start racing home at 20 miles, or have pacesetters to take you to 30k and finish alone. Now everyone in the race is willing to run hard the entire way. There are almost no tactics anymore except run as fast as you can. Geoffrey Mutai is the future. Mutai wasnt content to simply "race" the last 10k with the others. He wanted to crush them and stamp is name as the king of running. And he did so with authority.

Gebremariam tried to go with him but he couldn't hang. I do respect his effort.

wejo wrote:

Under no stretch of the imagination was I saying that was the greatest marathon ever.

The title of the thread is, "If that wasn't the greatest marathon ever run, what was."

You baffle me.

J.R. wrote:

Maybe it's about the 50th greatest of all time.

Please name the 49 that were better.

According to this ARRS link,

http://www.arrs.net/TB_Mara.htm

average marathon biases are:

+52.3 New York City (NY/USA)

-1.1 Frankfurt (GER)

-68.5 Berlin (GER)

So New York is typically 52 seconds slow, while Berlin is 69 seconds fast, and Frankfurt (and Chicago -0.1) are fairly neutral.

I haven't seen specific race time biases for these 2011 races, but assuming we can use the "average" race time biases:

- The 2:03:38 in Berlin is only worth 2:04:46.5

- The 2:03:42 in Frankfurt is worth a 2:03:43.1

- A 2:05:06 performance in New York is worth a 2:04:13.7

This year's Boston advantage was computed to be -1:37 (?) this year, making a 2:03:02 worth 2:04:39.

Sammy Wanjiru's Olympic performance of 2:06:32 was worth 2:04:00.

This link

http://www.arrs.net/AllTime/ATB_Mara.htm

should be updated after the end of the year, and then we can see how all of the 2011 races compare, according to statistical calculations by the ARRS.