McDougall Article in New York Times

hypnotoad wrote:

I'm gonna settle this debate and I'm gonna do it scientifically. For the next month I'm going to run with a shoe on the left foot and none on the right. Then I'll see on which side I get injured.

After I recover I'm going to repeat the experiment but this time with the shoe on the right foot.

I'll let you know. Stay tuned...

ha ha.... sweet. I will be waiting with bated breath.

(you know, if in reality if McVibram wanted to truly test his LAW [he's already proven it in his mind] that running barefoot or in vibrams, while using the 100-up drill as a supplement, is vastly superior for running performance and injury prevention compared to running in, let's say in a traditional running shoe [not a racing flat, but not the bulkiest shoe of all, something in the middle which is what most runners have used], he could recruit some beginning runners, start them both on the same training program, give them pep talks from advocates on both sides [pro-barefoot for that group, pro-shoe for the other group], and monitor their progress over a couple years controlling how much they run. Then, test performance and monitor injuries over those 2 years. There would be your study. It wouldn't be double blind obviously, but it would sufficient. Actually, it wouldn't cost too much, and would be fairly easily to implement. Step or shut up McVibram. Prove your theory with some hard data and I will shut up. )

monkeyblossom wrote:

38 posts on this thread and yet nobody has asked Renato Canova for his opinion?!

He probably clicked on the thread and was disgusted that it was not about Josh McDougal.

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

(you know, if in reality if McVibram wanted to truly test his LAW ... Prove your theory with some hard data and I will shut up. )

Or he could just start running in shoes again. McDougall claims that running barefoot has kept him injury free since the day he started and that 100-ups have brought him close to his PR despite barely training.

My bet is that he could start running in shoes again and he would remain uninjured and might improve even more ... as long as he keeps the good running form that he has developed.

categorically wrote:

Or he could just start running in shoes again. McDougall claims that running barefoot has kept him injury free since the day he started and that 100-ups have brought him close to his PR despite barely training.

My bet is that he could start running in shoes again and he would remain uninjured and might improve even more ... as long as he keeps the good running form that he has developed.

Only he hasn't been running injury free since going barefoot.

"Long plagued by an endless series of running injuries, he set out to remake his running form under the guidance of expert mentors, doctors and gurus. He adjusted to flimsier and flimsier shoes, learning to avoid crashing down on his heel with each stride and landing more gently on his midfoot. It was initially successful, and after nine months of blissful training, he achieved the once-unthinkable goal of completing a 50-mile race with the Tarahumara. But soon afterwards, he was felled by a persistent case of plantar fasciitis that lingered for two years."

You pr

Busted! wrote:

But soon afterwards, he was felled by a persistent case of plantar fasciitis that lingered for two years."

Keep the rest of the quote coming...

I thought my technique was Tarahumara pure,” he recalls ruefully, “but I had regressed to my old form.” Now, having re-corrected the “errors” in his running form, he is once again running pain-free.

I remember McDougall was supposed to run NY last year but pulled out at the last minute amid rumors that he suffered a stress fracture. I never read a confirmation of this, though.

Busted Busted wrote:

You pr

Busted! wrote:

But soon afterwards, he was felled by a persistent case of plantar fasciitis that lingered for two years."

Keep the rest of the quote coming...

I thought my technique was Tarahumara pure,” he recalls ruefully, “but I had regressed to my old form.” Now, having re-corrected the “errors” in his running form, he is once again running pain-free.

So he got hurt and now he's healthy again. Is that different than 99% of other runners, whether they wear traditional trainers, minimalist flats, or no shoes at all? Or whether they run with "perfect form" or not? My point is that his article claims that he suffered from no injuries after ditching the shoes and adopting his form. The beginning of the quote proves that he's making up at least one thing, so how can anyone tell how much of the rest of the article is based on "facts" that he made up? The rest of the quote is irrelevant to that particular point.

Busted! wrote:

My point is that his article claims that he suffered from no injuries after ditching the shoes and adopting his form.

Go back and reread the article. He makes no such claim. What he says is that he didn't miss any time due to injury, and you believe you have a found a contradiction. You haven't.

Tell me if I could honestly and without contradicting myself say, "I didn't miss any running this week due to injury. On Tuesday and Thursday, I had to deal with discomfort due to PF."

PF is one of those injuries that you can run through.

I noticed that in the article McDougall says that shoes don't matter. It's your running style that does.

This guy took minimalist running to a new level. http://timeswv.com/local/x459214878/Naked-man-is-arrested-in-Monongah

LetsRun Readers,

I’ve been flattered by the emails from around the globe of runners sharing their stories of recovery and discovery after reading the article. Here is my story.

“A man’s errors are his portals of discovery” -- James Joyce

Twice in the past two years, my running shoe store, Two Rivers Treads, which is in the small town of Shepherdstown, West Virginia, was honored to host and gain wisdom from best-selling author and force of nature Christopher McDougall. Locals came to hear from Chris aka “Mr. Born to Run.”

Chris and I both share a similar pathway in the discovery of better fitness and health through natural running. He is now a world-famous author, and in addition to owning a minimalist shoe store, I am a family physician in a town of 3,000. We both are in our mid 40s, and have trashed our feet and legs along the way, the result of a lifelong addiction to running.

Chris’s bestseller “Born to Run” follows several narrative threads, but it is also his own personal story of “why does my foot hurt?” He discussed the regular trips to the doctors, shoe stores, and orthotic makers. With each escalation in care there was more pain, that is, until he found a different route in the remote Copper Canyon of Mexico where the Tarahumara Indians run in flat-sole tire-tread sandals happily into their 80’s. He also met barefoot runners during his research for the book. He eventually arrived at the conclusion that most conventional running shoes are the cause of running injuries.

I began running barefoot on the beach as a pre-teen and easily covered distances of 10 or more miles. My personal path of pain began in high school and then into a college and post-collegiate running career. I had successes that were often tempered by injury, setbacks, surgery. I had acquired a closet full of arch supports, orthotics, various shoe types. This was always in search of the holy grail of pain- free running.

I pushed through the pain in pursuit of the Olympic Marathon Trials 2:22 standard and came within two minutes on two occasions. When I hit 34 years of age, my first toe joints were fused with arthritis, and I was forced to have surgical procedures to reduce the pain. The prognosis looked bleak for a future in running.

And a lot like Chris’s own trip to Copper Canyon, my journey of discovery began afar: while watching Kenyan runners go barefoot. I applied this natural way of running to my own jogging. I learned how to run softly. Seven months after surgery and with a new efficient and painless running stride, I ran a 2:28 for third place in the 2000 Marine Corps Marathon, only four minutes shy of my best time ever for the distance.

A decade has passed and the learning I gained about natural running only became deeper and broader. You might say that I was being “home-schooled” on all aspects of movement and how the foot interacts with the ground. For example, the Tarahumara Indians run in a style reflective of how we all ran as children; they land lightly on their mid-foot (not the heel), have a slight forward lean, and are completely relaxed and happy. Also, the best shoe was less shoe.

My self-enlightenment about footwear and running was not as immediate as Chris, who experienced it by cultural immersion. Chris and I both agree that it is not about the shoes (or lack thereof), but more about understanding how your body stands and moves, improving strength and function, and then figure out what shoe (if any) to wear. Ten years after the foot surgery and being told not to run, I feel that I’m finally putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. I finished the Boston marathon in 2011 in 2:37:00, practically smiling the whole way. Several months later, I won the Air Force Marathon outright; and back running the day after the race. I love light and flat shoes for road races, trails, casual, and at work to get me secretly close to barefoot at my day job as a physician.

We all have to follow our own path of what works or doesn’t work. Our bodies and past running histories are different. View the resources Natural Running Center, you will have a practical way to make injury-free running a permanent fixture in your own life.

I especially want to thank colleagues for sharing knowledge: Danny Dreyer, Jay Dicharry, Lee Saxby, Danny Abshire, Dr. Ray McClanahan, Dr. Daniel Lieberman, Ian Adamson, Dr. Phil Maffetone, Blaise Dubois, Pete Larson, Dr. Irene Davis, Lorraine Moller, and Nobby Hashizume. And especially Bill Katovsky and Nicholas Pang for helping me create the Natural Running Center.

--Mark Cucuzzella, M.D.

mark@freedomsrun.org

http://naturalrunningcenter.com/

https://www.tworiverstreads.com/

For our movie on Barefoot Running Style - enjoy

http://youtu.be/kpnhKcvbsMM

I have a fun game. Let's count how many of the elite Kenyans (you know, the guys who supposedly run barefoot all their lives) run races barefoot? I don't seem to remember either of the Mutais being barefoot this morning. How could this possibly be?

I totally agree. It's the form.

During my running, which started at age 49 (I'm now 58). I experienced plantar faciitis (the worst case the Dr had seen) and more recently (2010) orthoscopic knee surgery to get rid of chunks of cartilage (the Dr said I don't see how you can walk up and down stairs). As a result, if I overstride which leads to heel strike, the knee barks a bit. Therefore, my stride adopted to mid/forefoot landing painfree. What is cool is I can now run in any shoes. My Asics 2000 series can last 1800 miles (I ran Detroit Marathon in them). I recently started running in Brooks PureFlow with 4 mm heel drop and there was no muscle soreness (calf or achilles)in the transition.

My point is, which others have agreed, is form first, shoes second. Once you have the form you will find that the bulkier shoes don't feel right.

I've been now running over 440 days everyday uninjured at about 2800 miles per year.

When shod runners get hurt, it's the shoes. When barefoot runners get hurt, it's their form. Or that they didn't ease into it gradually enough. See a double standard here? For every barefoot success story, there's a failure. And there's also plenty of people who can run healthy and injury-free ONLY because they have custom orthotics and supportive shoes.

assdafdas wrote:

When shod runners get hurt, it's the shoes. When barefoot runners get hurt, it's their form. Or that they didn't ease into it gradually enough. See a double standard here? For every barefoot success story, there's a failure. And there's also plenty of people who can run healthy and injury-free ONLY because they have custom orthotics and supportive shoes.

And this is why we need a real study to test McVibram's claims. I laid out the details in my last post. A very simple study to do. Would the running shoe companies, and vibram and McDougal all participate (contribute to the study)? Or would each be scared of the potential results? Even without their participation, the study could easily done. I would truly like to see those results.

I liked how he said asphalt isn't harder than the plains of Africa we evolved in...WTF?

The common arguments against minimalist and barefoot running remind me a lot of the arguments in favor of young earth creationism. Anyone of merely average intelligence and critical thinking skills can really only roll their eyes.

Just watched the NYC Marathon today and was impressed by the performances of elite runners wearing the same type of shoes runners like Rodgers and Salazar wore.

Everyone is an experiment of one and what works for McDougal or Cucuzzelaa (who runs and writes for Newton) doesn't necessarily mean its best for everyone.

If someone needs barefoot or Newton to improve form - great. But to suggest that any of those will magically make injuries disappear or make bad form perfect is irresponsible, especially for a physician.

sebcoe7 wrote:

Just watched the NYC Marathon today and was impressed by the performances of elite runners wearing the same type of shoes runners like Rodgers and Salazar wore.

Everyone is an experiment of one and what works for McDougal or Cucuzzelaa (who runs and writes for Newton) doesn't necessarily mean its best for everyone.

If someone needs barefoot or Newton to improve form - great. But to suggest that any of those will magically make injuries disappear or make bad form perfect is irresponsible, especially for a physician.

So let me get this straight. You think suggesting running barefoot or in Newtons will make one "magically" injury free is irresponsible. Super. Cause 1) that is completely non-controversial and blatheringly obvious and 2) no one, absolutely no one, is claiming that.

Any other golden nuggets of wisdom you can bless us with? Cause, really, I don't know how I made it this far in life without you.

Maybe if you spend more time READING (as in all the leteers within the link), you could avoid disappointment in the future.

A Skeptic wrote:

Wwjd running group wrote:

I wish the article was about josh mcdougal

I clicked on this thread thinking I was getting a NYT article about Josh McDougal. I was disappointed.

A Reader wrote:

Maybe if you spend more time READING (as in all the leteers within the link), you could avoid disappointment in the future.

A Skeptic wrote:

I clicked on this thread thinking I was getting a NYT article about Josh McDougal. I was disappointed.

I love the irony of the letsrun posters. (What are leteers anyways?)