KARA GOUCHER JOINS TEAM SCHUMACHER!!

smd wrote:

I love this line, like a professional athlete would otherwise not be able to rouse herself to be at work at the ungodly early hour of 8:30:

"If I know that Shalane and Lisa are waiting for me to run at 8:30 in the morning, I’m going to get up and meet them because I don’t want to let them down."

It feeds the monster (i.e. attention whore) to have others "waiting for" her.

This board is so full of shit it's incredible. They had NO intention of returning to Colorado, they're staying in Portland because it's a great place to train and Schumacher's group is there, and Skechers was never in the picture to supplant NIKE.

The synagogue comment is an obvious anti-Semitic troll who should be tried for treason.

joho wrote:

So now we are bashing professional American runners for wanting to be the best in the world? I thought we bashed the pros when they were content with being top American.

Or, do we just bash them regardless of they what they say or do because some of us are pathetic losers with a chip on our shoulder?

smd wrote:

Or do we mindlessly use the word "bash" to mean "anything other than cheerleading"?

joho wrote:

You have a mouse in your pocket?

endless bashing wrote:

I agree with Joho. This board attacks the eltie runners no matter what they do. It is her racing career and her life. If she thinks this decision can help her career, then good for her. Best of luck.

Except that the critique in question is not at all unfair, less an attack than holding a speaker accountable for her words. Goucher chose to put those words out in the media, nobody held a gun to her head. If you talk big to hype yourself and don't deliver then you deserve criticism. She put that bullseye on herself. Not all publicity is good publicity and now she's got a reputation for talking smack and failing to deliver on it.

macguy4life wrote:

I think he meant potential medalist, but he can answer for himself. Everyone knows Shalane got the bronze in the Olympics. Goucher's bronze was weak and it wasn't in the Olympics.

Schumacher's athletes have two World Championship medals to their credit from this year.

hardset nipples wrote:

Except that the critique in question is not at all unfair, less an attack than holding a speaker accountable for her words. Goucher chose to put those words out in the media, nobody held a gun to her head. If you talk big to hype yourself and don't deliver then you deserve criticism. She put that bullseye on herself. Not all publicity is good publicity and now she's got a reputation for talking smack and failing to deliver on it.

On LetsRun you seem to have a bullseye on you if you are good enough to get any consistent attention.

Put some things together and see if they make sense. 1) she thinks she needs constant pressure to get the best possible out of herself. 2) she has done quite well, but a bit inconsistently and not quite as well as she has hoped (fits for 95% of us, I think); 3) she does not have years and years left at the top, most likely.

So she goes a slightly different route to see if she can get the next bit there. Being competitive to the very end of a MM is very hard to do, as is winning a medal at a Major.

As for judging Jerry Schumacher's success in the marathon based on both a 'small "n" ' in an event with very high variance and a long learning curve is rather more than premature. Further, if you are posting without a permanent handle your posts are essentially useless because you have no skin in the game and no track record.

agip wrote:

...a superstar, distance running version, so Nike wasn't going to fire her.

Ask Meb about that...

Sorry my friend -- just making a joke.

I didn't intend anyone to take my Skechers comment seriously...I was playing off of the Skechers rumor from the original Goucher-leaving-Salazar thread. She's Nike all the way.

26mi235 wrote:

On LetsRun you seem to have a bullseye on you if you are good enough to get any consistent attention.

You can see the difference between a vigorous self-promoter/trash-talker like Goucher and someone who is simply going about it with a quiet confidence, can't you? Yes, of course people receive unfair and undue criticism via this board on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean there can't also be legit criticism on occasion.

Put some things together and see if they make sense. 1) she thinks she needs constant pressure to get the best possible out of herself. 2) she has done quite well, but a bit inconsistently and not quite as well as she has hoped (fits for 95% of us, I think); 3) she does not have years and years left at the top, most likely.

Then 1) the hype-based criticism should contribute to keeping that pressure on, 2) 95%, no 99%, no 99.9999% of us haven't made running performance our job in the sense that's the only thing we spend a significant amount of time on on a daily basis, consistency is part of the job description for a pro athlete and 3) definitely agree, maybe another two or three years getting appearance fees and prize money at major marathons (not necessarily WMM, either, could be races like Stockholm, Osaka, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Tokyo, or more likely various RnR venues).

hardset nipples nailed it! Could not have put it better myself. She said what she said and didn't deliver so with it comes criticism. When she said she wanted to win for her fans, that is total BS. Kara is about Kara and the hype is for $$$$.

As for the comments about how well many claim she did in the majors, please!

After Boston, she said she should have won and maybe should have went harder earlier on, BS! Before the race she had every opportunity to decide how she wanted to run and then during the race changed her mind, live with it. Honestly, she is full of excuses after every race I've seen.

Bingo baby! Talks too much and doesn't produce what she claims she is capable of, over and over. Her choice, but it's a tad annoying.

Hey she broke 2:25 so face it, she's decent. Someone mentioned her running 2:20? NOT gonna happen.

smd wrote:

Or do we mindlessly use the word "bash" to mean "anything other than cheerleading"?

How have you used the word mindlessly?

I do like your writing and often your commentary. I do not like to see you deep in the peanut gallery.

hardset nipples wrote:

self-promoter/trash-talker like Goucher and someone who is simply going about it with a quiet confidence, can't you?

She is a vigorous self promoter because she has a blog that she discusses her running. People read the blog. She is popular so the press interviews her. When she enters a race, the media get excited.

Seems too me that this is the way star athletes in other sports are treated. More of track and road running should work this way. For example, Desi has been doing more interviews and fun things on flo etc. Great!

I can't recall her ever trashing someone else, although she believes she can beat everyone she enters a race with (and says so). That's confidence, even if a little or a lot off the mark. Not trashing anyone. Although that one competitor spot she did with flanagan where they satire attacking each other was funny. She also did some funny thing about chicking a guy in a half marathon a year or two ago. Also very funny.

Are you allowed to like other runners better than her without going into attack mode: yes, it is allowed. Feel free. She is not my favorite, nor is she even my favorite who just had a kid, but this is really ridiculous.

Not a peanut gallery. Kara Goucher is not going to make the team in the marathon and repeating what others have said, she will run Boston and then the 5,000 or 10,000 to get there. It's called long distance running marketing 101.

The ? is where will you be when the peanut gallery is right? In addition, if they are right, what does that make you?

Do you think you are more educated on the subject, please do share you "expert" opinion as we are all waiting.

mplatt and smd know nothing more than the rest of us, just another opinion. Chew on that this glorious morning.

If it's ridiculous then why are you posting on this thread?

Comparing Kara to Desi is absolutely ridiculous. Kara is marketing herself to no end which is her right, but it is also the right of people on a forum to post their opinion about her rarely coming through when compared to her pre-race comments. Winning or medaling in WC Marathon, that was a joke. She won me an easy $100 as I bet she wouldn't be top 5, thanks Mike:):):) She's a talker who rarely if ever backs it up. People can kindly give their opinion on it without swearing. If you don't like it then you can pack up and leave. If she ever breaks 2:20 I will eat crow, seriously. After 4 attempts and no significant improvement race after race, it's not going to happen. If you call that hating then rest assured of one thing the rest of your entire life and that is that no one will ever accuse you of being intelligent.

Desi owned Kara in a race that Kara predicted victory. Kara then got killed by Shalane at the WC. This caused PANIC. I am sure that Shalane and Desi are laughing their asses off behind closed doors.

KARA IS NOT THE #! AMERICAN IN ANY EVENT. Not even close. She is 30 seconds behind Shalane in the 10k and 2 minutes behind Desi in the marathon.

There is a very good possibility I missed this, but I never saw anything where Kara guaranteed victory, said "I will win", etc.

I have seen lots of (paraphrased)...

"I'm going for the win"

"I think I can end the Boston drought of an American winner"

"I'm as well prepared as anyone and think I can win"

I fail to see the issue with any of these comments.

She has gone for the win, been in it late, and has come up short. What's the big deal.

Now, if someone can show me comments where she says:

"I will win. Guarantee"

"I will be the one to end the Boston drought of an American winner" (with or without) "because I am the best American marathoner"

"I'm better prepared then anyone and will win"

Then my opinion will change.

But being confident in your chances... and then being in the hunt past 20 miles, shows to me that the first set of comments were completely justified and a hell of a lot more refreshing then the typical boring rhetoric of "I'll do my best" and "I think I can sneak into the top 10" or "my goal is to be the top American".

Well said!!!!!!! and one more point.

To all of you posters who criticize Alberto, did you ever think for one moment that Kara is no better than what she's produced to this point? Do any of you who really run actually think that there is some trick workout that is going to make her drop 4 minutes in the marathon? Do you remember how she raved about his workouts and how well she was doing them? I understand change, but in this case I don't think it's going to translate to a significantly faster time. But....you will argue repeatedly that I am wrong without any reasonable reason as to why. Carry on.

simon says 3 wrote:

Do you remember how she raved about his workouts and how well she was doing them?

Alberto raved about her workouts. He did the same thing with Ritz prior to his marathon. Remember the infamous 20 miler at 4:51 pace? Alberto is clueless in the marathon. It has been proven over and over and over.