If You Were Coaching Andrew Wheating, What Would You Have Advised Him To Do in Men's 1500?

Chance would be a fine thing!

Front page vid not working in uk but finally found:

http://www.gotracktownusa.com/Videos

A lot would say go earlier say from 300m. He's a Cram type who needs build up to hit top speed

I would say first could have done with the confidence of going into the race having done 3:30-2 (of which he is well capable) already in the season

In the race he was to far back at the bell. Even though it looked like he moved up comfortably down the back straight he has used up valuable energy he was lacking on the finish

However, he did actual get in the position right behind the leader at 200m. Round the last bend he looked like he could have made his move. Maybe he was all out in which case nothing you can do. But to me he should have made a decisive move round the last bend. He may have been passed. Instead he gave the others chance close up and got done over the last 50m

Easier said than done though!

That Centrowitz is good. He should be able to go sub 3:35 confortably in a fast race then looks to be a have the finish to deal with the rounds of the WC's

It is better to have tried and failed than to never try at all. What happened to the 800 meter kid in his race? Gutsy, yes, but he didn't win and noone is saying how terrible he ran. We can debate untill the cows come home, especially when we talk about Oregon runners. The bottom line is he's going to the World Championships (provided he makes the standard) and he earned the right. Personally I thought it was a very entertaining race. Look at it this way: the slow early pace allowed you to watch a few extra seconds of track!

Burns 3 wrote:

Don't get hurt for 3 months in the winter. It has nothing to do with his tactics--it's such an easy thing to blame. Classic HS coach mentality. He will be in great shape come Worlds, but he isn't there yet.

Very good points although he nearly didn't get the chance at the WC's. Now he's in he can do well

Far be it to ever suggest anyone take race tactic lessons from Alan Webb, but in 2007 (I think) Webb ran this race tactically like Wheating should have in 2011.

My recollection is Webb entered the race with he and Legat pretty clearly the class of the field. Webb made sure the pace went out fast enough that only he and Legat would be around at the end. I think Manzano slipped into the mix late.

So ... yes to win the race maybe pressing the pace early wouldn't have been such a good idea. But, it probably would have been the best tactic to assure making the team.

Say what you want about tactics, but he just didn't run confidently. Seemed like every shot of the race had him trying to maneuver. Swinging wide to avoid trouble. Tucking back in before the curve. Over-maneuvering. That's too much mentally and physically in a race with such a tight margin.

He's a world class mid-distance runner with a kick to match everyone, Lagat being in his own league. Pick you spots. Maybe the pressure got to him a little, or just the way the race played out rattled him, but watching the race and interviews before and after revealed shakiness.

What he should've done differently - take a deep breath and calm down, have confidence in your ability, be a competitor and go for it.

His first season out of college where he's not the new kid on the block. I think he'll learn a lot from this experience, gain confidence in himself, and do greater things in the future.

I think Wheating positioned himself very well for the last lap and the stretch run.

He just didn't or couldn't execute.

Possible reasons:

-Running wide earlier in the race. He worked harder and ran further to keep up and had less in the tank at the end.

-Pressure. He may have put too much pressure on himself and couldn't relax and let the running come out.

-Fitness. Maybe he just wasn't in top form or fitness and got beat by better runners.

I don't blame the slow pace.

A 1:44 800 runner should have a field day with that pace.

Especially someone who is known for coming on hard at the end.

Also, Lagat and Manzano are very experienced and accomplished 1500m runners. No shame losing to them.

We may find out soon just how good Centro is.

Centro looked like the class of the field if you didn't know who they were and just watched their running mechanics and facial expressions.

Wheating is slow. Obviously that is relative, he is amazing, but his top sprinting speed is significantly slower than ALL of the top guys. This should be disturbing for him.

Wheating was in perfect position but he is just plain slower than Leo, Centro, Lagat, and just about all of the top 800 guys some of whom might move up in years to come.

It wasn't always like this, Wheating used to have a top gear that he doesn't have now.

this is correct(about finishing speed) but its not like he is 35 years old. He was injured and is not ready to race. He still came 4th. Surprisingly consistent training does make a difference.

Hopefully someone will be bumping this thread in 8 weeks so we can all look stupid for arguing about this.

I'd have advised him to run as Austin Mudd did in the junior 1500. Meaning, take it out like a man and ditch the sit-n-kick strategy of weak-minded pansies.

What would be the harm in taking the pace out in a 1500? It's not like taking the lead in a marathon where you can and certainly will falter. I always tell my athletes that it takes more energy to "jog and jostle" than it does to run your normal race pace. You've been training for that pace all along and the body becomes most efficient at the paces you train at the most. If you go out at that pace, the field will come with you and somebody will most certainly run on your shoulder-just as it is in training. For some reason, that scares the crap out of people not named Steve Prefontaine and Americans proceed to crap down their leg and run a race they are not well suited for in a final. Instead of competing again 1-maybe 2 people who can sustain your ideal race pace, you've just opened the door for somebody to beat you who should have no business running with you. Sure, you'd like to just be able to react to moves, but what about the notion of making the first move and still having something in the tank. Is everyone really saying that a guy who has gone 3:31 can't just front run to a 3:33-35 if need be in a championship race. To illustrate the type of race I think AW should have run, I refer you all to the 1980 Olympic Trials 1500 won by Steve Scott at...Hayward Field. Make it tough on your competitors whose abilities are not your equal. The 1200 jog and 300 sprint 1500 makes me ill and convinced that most in that field lacked heart and tactical skill.

I'd tell him that he's a favorite, if not the favorite, and he should act like it. To me, it seemed as if he felt that he wasn't the class of the field. Looking back at both his prelim and the oxy invite, he stayed further up in the field at faster paces. The best place for someone of his size would be right were centrowitz when mcnamara made his move, second or third place, on the inside of lane 2. Wheating has ran faster than all but 1 person in that final, he should stay in around second or third place just outside of lane one from the start. He just seemed as though he might be overwhelmed by the fields credentials, something that wasn't very evident at oxy, and wasn't noticeable at all in the prelim. The first couple laps he was way too far back, and was way too far out in lane 3. When it stretches out move into lane one behind the first guy or two, then take them heading into 200 to go, as you have more strength then usual at the moment. From there you can wratchet it up, and your size will make all the other contenders go out a bit further to pass you on the turn. Last 100 i would say just do what youve always done, as before that race he never really had problems closing that.

And to all those saying that he should follow Lagat and whatever he does, you should think a little bit. Wheating is a very big guy. Lagat, and also manzano, are small and quick. Whenever you watch lagat or manzano, they have the ability to stay near the rail, as they can accelerate almost instantly to avoid getting boxed in. Both of them spent a good amount of time near the rail in the pack during the race. Yes, they are great tactically, but there size allows them to take different risks than wheating, who has to risk running extra distance to allow him to not get boxed or tripped up. This is also one of the reasons that Lagat is so d*mn good at indoors, he can just shift gears on demand. Wheating would be better served to look at Centro's race as others have said, especially NCAA's. As Centro is more of a 5k guy than most others in the field, he might not be able to shift gears as well as the others. Thus, he stays on the outside shoulder of the leader, and maintains a more constant pace throughout the race, almost always moving to the lead by 200 to go.

Sp!kes wrote:

Wheating is slow. Obviously that is relative, he is amazing, but his top sprinting speed is significantly slower than ALL of the top guys. This should be disturbing for him.

Wheating was in perfect position but he is just plain slower than Leo, Centro, Lagat, and just about all of the top 800 guys some of whom might move up in years to come.

It wasn't always like this, Wheating used to have a top gear that he doesn't have now.

I think this is the answer. Does anyone know what Lagat/Centro and Leo closed in for the last 200/400? And how does that compared to what Wheating has been able to do in his better races?

I always thought of Wheating as having a Usain Bolt-esque kick. The videos of him blowing by people in college are legendary stuff. Why are we all thinking that he needs to break up a tactical race? Maybe he just wasn't as fast as he usually is or needs to be a faster closer. Its not like its going to be any easier at worlds.

I hear what you are saying, however, I don't think shoe companies are going to be paying for long by running 3:48 and finishing fourth. Do you suggest he run the same way at the World's? It's simple, Wheating ran a stupid race, as did many of the other runners. I don't think you will see him duplicating the "stragedy" in the future. I'm sure he and his coach learned someting from this race.

The harm in taking the pace out from the beginning is that you have recent 3:32 guys Lagat, Manzano and Lomong that he just won't be able to run away from.

Torrence wouldn't fall back either.

There seems to be an assumption that Centro wouldn't be able to hang but I really don't know about that.

If he goes out in 1:55 he isn't going to get away from anyone. It will take a sting out their kick but there were enough guys in there that can still kick off of that pace and pass him with him doing the early work.

If he goes faster than 1:55 he will set himself up to be tying up with enough capable people closing on him to pass him.

The field is too deep. He is not comfortable with leading and his 2nd best time ever is only 3:36.

And I am going to guess that he is not in 3:30 shape right now.

How come no one is giving Lomong any flack?

He runs 3:32, finished 8th at WC's but 7th in this race.

Should he have led?

The "problem" is that the US has too many good milers these days.

Just watched the men's 1500 final again. What a bunch of gutless turds. Wurth-Thomas had bigger stones than anyone in the men's race. It may not have paid off for her, but at least she didn't run like a coward.

You are wrong, toro.

Wheating should have come through the Kilo in 2:24 and then start a nasty, nasty 500-meter kick winding it up and really starting to go at 250. He would have broken everyone but Lagat, and Lagat was apparently tired from the 5000 so he might have won it.

I would say she ran like a scared coward. It takes courage and mental strength to wait until the right time to make a move. It also takes discipline not to go out like an idiot.If I was coaching Wheating, I would have him in shape for nationals. Centros last 400m was a 52.7. Wheating has run faster than that for 800m. I am guessing that right now he is in 3:35 shape not 3:30 shape which would explain why he was right with the pack at the finish.

Tell It Like It Is wrote:

Just watched the men's 1500 final again. What a bunch of gutless turds. Wurth-Thomas had bigger stones than anyone in the men's race. It may not have paid off for her, but at least she didn't run like a coward.

These comments tell me he doesn't race enough for one thing. Finding out you aren't the kicker you thought you were in the semis of the trials is not good planning.

Lots of these guys think working hard is enough. You can't prepare for race conditions in training - unless you're the rabbit.

Also - if you have the great time, then get out there. Too many of these guys are afraid to lose at their personal best. They seem to avoid putting pressure in the race. They'd rather lose in a walk than lose in a fast run. The first talks about shit tactics, the second questions whether they are as good as they think.

Race more Wheating and find out.

Run 59-60s pace at the front if it is that dead slow at 200-300m. Puts him in control and in good position, while still feeling relaxed. It will still be a kick-fest, but he at least has the position to cover anything immediately.

To echo others he just didn't seem to have at on the day - he was in solid position at the bell, but the leaders just ran away from him the last 100m.