HS Coach With Letsrun Ties Fired Over Runners Running With Their Shirts Off

[quote]Half shirts wrote:

Further from what I heard inappropriate language was used by the coach towered school admins on the track in front of students. The coach helped write an article on this site about Alan Webb reacting in a similar manner. Webb is an elite athlete and that article railed against similar behavior and how it sets the wrong example. Apparently the level of decorum expexted by he authors of that article was not followed here.

quote]

untrue, maybe you should grow up and check your facts before posting rumors on the internet...

whs track wrote:

Comment from one of the current members of the team...this isn't from me, i came across it

ok you guys know shit about this situation. i’m actually on his spring track team. He had so many chances. The principal and other school representatives warned him and he doesnt listen. They had enough with his antics and finally fired him. He PROVOKED the kids and only trains his top 5. Im not one of the star athletes on the team and he doesnt even care about us. He deserves to be fired for not being a good coach. all though he made our team state champions it was only because the same 6 guys ran all the events. No one else gets a chance to succeed. As a track runner whos skills arent appreciated…i’m glad he’s gone

maybe the administration should have hired a sprint coach?... is one person supposed to pay equal attention when they are coaching over 10 events? you should try it

I didn’t know about the Letsrun connection with Tom. Interesting...

I have heard through the grapevine that Tom came across as conceited and full of himself. But there is such a dearth of good high school coaches I would be willing to over look it. Tom certainly seems to be a talented coach. (Plus I didn’t know how much of these rumors about him being conceited were just sour grapes…)

Obviously, I think Tom should keep his job. The AD seems out of line. There are guys like that in small towns all over the country. Big fish in small ponds, always looking to flex their muscle.

One point though Rojo.. WHS has produced a number of D1 runners, including the current Columbia 800 meter star Jeff Moriarty. I know we made the state meet for XC in 94 and 95. I think in 95 the team came in 4th? I think we had a 4*800 run 8.06 in 1996 too

The above is not meant to take away from what Tom has done.

Do runners not have bosses? I can't stand my boss, but when he tells me one time not to do something, I literally never do it. At the very least, Tom Davis was told 3 times that his runners had to wear shirts by his superiors. Hey Tom, ever hear of picking your battles? If my boss told me I had to come in to work an hour early and not get paid, I'd fight it. Telling me my athletes have to wear shirts- not really in my wheelhouse.

It comes down to this- time to grow up and learn that sometimes in life you have to do things you really don't want to do. Aren't you becoming a lawyer someday? Your website says so. What happens when the judge overrules your objection. Walk out of the courtroom? Or just wait until he objects three times before finally holding you in contempt.

Clown

As a current member of the team I can say without a doubt that what Fogel did (and how he did it) was wrong. I was standing there when Fogel came wheeling in on his little golf cart and I was nearly spit on by Fogel when he got up in Tom's face. Tom (who was in the middle of a workout) did very little to provoke Fogel and handled himself with dignity. Fogel, on the other hand, was looking to assert his supposed dominance. He screamed at the top of his lungs in front of over 50 athletes and coaches and was right up in his face the entire time. If Fogel had even the faintest understanding of what his duties as an AD entailed, then he wouldnt have acted the way he did. Within 15 seconds of Fogel dismounting his golf cart, Tom was fired. Personally, I am extremely disappointed in Fogel as an AD and person (not even including his phsyical history) and it is rumored that he his higher up on the payroll than even our principal. We go to a school that day in day out preaches freedom of speech and voicing your opinion in the face of adversity, but in reality, none of the athletes had any say in the matter. In fact, theres a good chance that our admin will see this thread and we will be punished. But I dont care. I'm simply revealing the true sentiments in my mind and the minds of other WW athletes. If the removal of Tom Davis is upheld given the fact that it was done at the hands of a corrupt, physically abusive, and power hungry AD then I am ashamed at my school.

So... I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but there are many posters claiming that this is a "bad" rule. I think that, for high schoolers, this may not be such a bad thing.

It starts with the guys taking their shirts off.

Then the thin distance girls start running in sports bras.

Eventually everyone on the team is going shirtless. This opens up the potential for more "well-endowed" young women to take their shirts off. Maybe you could couple this rule with some kind of full-coverage sports bra rule, but wouldn't it just be easier to say "everyone has to wear a shirt" rather than deal with the potentially disastrous too-small sports bra problem?

Also, it is a bit of a double-standard to tell a young woman that her body is inappropriate to be seen in public, but the male body is just fine?

I'm not so sure about the whole "was it in writing" thing, but the rule does not seem to be without merit to me.

Its clear that the track team feels wronged and their opinion over the matter is that it was an unjust firing.

"We go to a school that day in day out preaches freedom of speech and voicing your opinion in the face of adversity, but in reality, none of the athletes had any say in the matter. In fact, theres a good chance that our admin will see this thread and we will be punished. But I dont care. I'm simply revealing the true sentiments in my mind and the minds of other WW athletes. If the removal of Tom Davis is upheld given the fact that it was done at the hands of a corrupt, physically abusive, and power hungry AD then I am ashamed at my school."

- I could not agree more with this sentiment. We are being taught to question and stand up for what you believe (and in this case what is widely accepted as typical running etiquette). However, when we try to act by those standards it results in this? that is surely not the message we are being taught

They told us we represent westwood high school when we run shirtless and that is not an image they want to have people see...well the truth is i feel ashamed to represent westwood high school as an athelete when this is how the adminstration acts towards Tom

My entire boys team ran without shirts in high school.

None of the girls ran in sports bras unless it was well over 80 degrees out and we usually had to be in the trails, not on the track or main grounds of the school before we'd take our shirts off.

Athletic directors are generally disrespectful and misunderstanding towards track. Our athletic director didn't allow us to go to overnight meets other than state because someone got hit by a car while we are at an overnight meet(even though they openly admitted that they had darted across the street without looking) and we weren't allowed to run off school grounds for a month long period after that incident either even though we had trails across a crosswalk from our school. Yes it make perfect sense to run 10 miles around school grounds with a perimeter of less than a mile...

I'm missing something on this whole "shirt" thing. I grew up in FL and attended schools here - we always ran without a shirt when it was hot. Some schools had a rule whereas you had to wear a shirt or SINGLET while on campus. What you wore off-campus was not a concern of the school as long as you weren't cited for indecency. I'm talking GS/HS. These school grounds are often called campuses.

There was a case a few years ago here where a male board member objected to girls wearing white bun huggers. He said that if you LOOKED CLOSELY, you might see a pubic hair. A woman suggested that he watch the race instead of looking for pubic hairs. She got a standing ovation and he was roundly booed.

100percentfemale wrote:

Also, it is a bit of a double-standard to tell a young woman that her body is inappropriate to be seen in public, but the male body is just fine?

Ma'am, no offense, but boys don't have tits. High School aged girls do. See the difference?

Have you seen some of the "big boys" out at football practices? Or even male throwers? Definitely could have some cleavage going on there. Yet, somehow, their extra fat is "decent" while a girl's is not.

The athletes should be able to wear whatever they want while they work out. If girls want to run in sports bras, so be it. Like I said before, every team I have ever been on has practiced shirtless at some point. No girls on my high school team wore only sports bras when I was there, but when I go home now I have seen a couple high school girls running around my hometown in sports bras. Who cares? The only people that give this serious consideration are lunatics and perverts. And, of course, pervert lunatics.

Where I come from, the guys run without their shirts and the girls are allowed to wear only a sports bra when they run. I don't think we've ever had a problem other than that we aren't allowed to be shirtless inside the school, which makes perfect sense and is a rule we tend to pay attention to. This sounds like a severe case of two grown men thinking they are better and more qualified to keep their position than the other going at it. First off, it's ridiculous for that rule to even be in place, but a rule is a rule, and you have to follow it or face the consequences. That being said, the article states that Tom tried to talk to the AD about the rule, but was denied many times. This too is ludacris.

There is no one who is right, and no one who is wrong here. Tom sounds like the typical arrogant coach who trains specifically his best athletes and that helps him win championships. As an average athlete, I'd be okay with that. An AD who doesn't let us take off our shirts on really hot days? I wouldn't be okay with that. Tom is the lesser of two evils by far, and his arrogant attitude is a little more justified than the AD's.

Tom Davis lies about his PRs!

From his blog (http://westwoodtrack.blogspot.com/2011/01/2010-numbers.html)

"PR's: Marathon - I ran the Cape Cod Marathon as a workout and covered the course in just under 2:28 for second place."

Race results (http://www.capecodmarathon.com/result-10-top.php):

1 Sammy Nyamongo 34 Greeley CO 2:28:56

2 Tom Davis 23 Newton MA 2:31:05

3 Paul Reilly 31 Northbridge MA 2:33:07

100percentfemale wrote:

Have you seen some of the "big boys" out at football practices? Or even male throwers? Definitely could have some cleavage going on there. Yet, somehow, their extra fat is "decent" while a girl's is not.

just saying, not everyone if forced to take their shirt off?

TDF wrote:

Maybe those Nashua South-Biship Guerten t-shirts that got two kids kicked off a team in NH can be sent down to Mass. Problem solved for both schools. Just rehire this coach and place those two NH boys back on their team! Ridiculous ADs!

Tom's step brother actually was a member of the Nashua South team and was part of the Bishop South group. Tom's step brother transferred to Nashua North last fall. From what I have heard, Tom was not happy with the coaching his step brother was receiving at South last. The transfer was questionable and the family said the transfer was not for athletic purposes (wink wink) Now Tom is not happy with the coaching his brother is getting at North and interfering with the training set up by the North coach. Maybe Tom can coach his brother full time since he does not have a coaching job?

Tom covered the Cape course in 2:27:38. I know this because I was there biking many points of it to watch him. However his time was slower because he stopped for three bathroom breaks and at every water stop he came to a full stop as he was using the race as a workout. "Covered the course", not "finished in."

Guys on the team, from what I've heard, read and from what I saw on the news tonight this guy has tried to make this all about him. Not just this incident but all of your successes as a team. Average to national contender? All because of him? I read some of your quotes from some of the older news articles. He was very good at convincing you that you needed him. I'll give him that much.

Get a clue guys its about you not him. He can't turn the legs over for you. Keep together, keep on your workouts, let him give them to you if you need that but end of the day what you did was because of you not him.

That said if you really cared about him as a coach then you would have followed the school rules and not thrown them back in the admins faces putting both parties in a needlessly difficult situation.

Also, good luck to Tom on getting another job in the area. I'm sure AD's will be jumping at the chance to bring you on board. If your only goal is to bring down this AD with you then that might work but really hurting your chances of getting back into the ring down the road.

100percentfemale wrote:

Have you seen some of the "big boys" out at football practices? Or even male throwers? Definitely could have some cleavage going on there. Yet, somehow, their extra fat is "decent" while a girl's is not.

Karl, it's over man! Don't latch onto feminism to try and defend your actions. You're still an idiot.