German Fernandez... just not the same runner any more

I read this site to get information and where is the information about these guys? All we get is some guy who claims to have heard some runner, not sure which, say something negative about his program, or maybe something negative about how strong it is that he cannot crack the top 7? This is your two time defending xc championship team. The coaching blows? You blow.

You guys realize that Dave Smith coached him throughout his freshman year, when he ran all those great performances? Even this fall, I think German finishing 8th in NCAA XC was a good stepping stone. I don't think coaching is the problem, he's either sick or hurt, or just training improperly for an event he shouldn't be running.

shoe guy wrote:

You guys realize that Dave Smith coached him throughout his freshman year, when he ran all those great performances? Even this fall, I think German finishing 8th in NCAA XC was a good stepping stone. I don't think coaching is the problem, he's either sick or hurt, or just training improperly for an event he shouldn't be running.

Did you really just say:

" I don't think coaching is the problem" and " just training improperly for an event he shouldn't be running." in the same sentence?

happy feet wrote:

???? uhhhh 4:00, 8:34 double at State, 2 mile HS record, solo 3:55 mile indoors, NCAA championship as a freshman, and Junior 5k record 5 seconds away from Olympic A standard.

The reference was to Alan Webb - great few years up to '07. Since then, nothing of note. This is not a roller coaster. It is a fall. And thus far no getting up.

Regarding GF - You spouting about his accomplishments seems odd. Is there someone out there who is not aware of these? The truth is that I too am duly impressed by what he did as a 17 and 18 year old. But, like Webb, there haven't been ups and downs since then (roller coaster style). Instead it has been a steady diet of mediocrity and worse.

Now before you go getting all...(which your earlier post came across as) let me be clear that I think GF has a world of talent, I loved watching his earlier races, and I truly hope that we will see the best of GF yet again.

I'm aware of that. My point is that Dave Smith has demonstrated he can coach him successfully. Maybe he tried to change things around this year, we'll never know. You just have to look at the history, and address the fact that since he graduated high school people have been critical of German's college choice. Since 2008, OSU has won 2 XC national championships and German has ran 3:55/7:47/13:25.

I'm pretty sure we are all in agreement that German was one of the greatest American High school distance talents of all time. He ran 8:34 as a high schooler for pete's sake. I expected future 5Ks under 13 and the like. I expected one of the deepest athlets of all time, with spectacular PRs from the 1500m-to the half marathon. I still believe that he has a chance to do all that, but will he? SO, why is he struggling so much? I think only German really knows that.

the way I see it, one of two things will happen

1. German will return to past form and shatter some more records, make serious runs at olympic games, and contend for numerous championships from NCAA on up.

2. German wil continue to do poorly, and eventually fade away into the background, get some random job, and not be competitive at anything serious in the future.

Personally, I think #1 is more likely. I agree, he had the talent to contend for top 3 at NCCAXC this past fall, so based off that his placing around 10th wasn't great, but 8th or 9th or whatever wasn't the worst he could've done. German just needs a good long period of training under his belt, stay focused, get his head in the right place. His confidence is probaly hurting alot right now, believe me, if your confidence takes hits like this over and over again, and you aren't anywhere you expected to be, it hurts you alot.

The coaching blows.

he just needs to start working at applebee's again. that's why i always liked him.

While I agree Fernandez's downward trend has been bizarre, it is certainly not unprecedented for an extremely talented athlete to have struggles out the gate. Of course, our expectation was much higher for Fernandez than almost any other runner in recent years, and definitely much higher than the example below.

There are countless examples, but I'll pick one, since he's just now really getting to where everyone thought he'd be when he was running 8:4x for the 2 mile as a HS junior: Andrew Bumbalough. Had some struggles, was way under the radar for a time and written off, speculation about incompatible coaching, some injuries, disappointing performances. Where is he now? Training with Teg as a 23-year-old, 13:16, second at USA XC, etc.

Granted, Fernandez should be capable of that RIGHT NOW, not when he's 23, but if you adjust everything upward to account for the possible talent gap (in favor of German), it seems like we shouldn't write him off just yet. Maybe, like Bumbalough, he just needs the right setting and partners to thrive. He'll find that eventually, if it's not OSU.

Wont Give In!!! wrote:

You cynics are a dime a dozen!!!!

They can't be that expensive. With no demand and an incredible supply on this board alone, I suggest 5 cents for fifty cynics would be a fair price.

There are lots of guys that spend a lot of time injuried (Ritz anyone, Goucher) and still have decent careers. You can argue if they reached their potential or not but I would rather be a 13:10 guy who didn't reach his potential than a 13:30 guy that did.

It is not the case that each you or even through a season you are not going to have some up and down races. If anything that is the nature of running. GF and Dave Smith truly are the only people that can confirm about injury, lack of speed or base, or anything else including the mental aspect of running. Has anyone thought about the stress of school in Junior and Senior level classes as opposed to Freshmand or Sophmore level classes? I want to see how he runs at conference and regionals before I get worried.

But the fact that he has fast times interspersed between some slow ones...and his teammates seem to be doing ok...it seems less of a Dave Smith issue and more of a GF issue. I have heard that he does things outside of practice to gain more fitness...maybe this is causing some slight fatigue. I think the coming month or so will reveal a bit more...but a 3:44 low doesn't indicate that he is a wreck, only that he is not super sharp.

happy feet wrote:

???? uhhhh 4:00, 8:34 double at State, 2 mile HS record, solo 3:55 mile indoors, NCAA championship as a freshman, and Junior 5k record 5 seconds away from Olympic A standard.

In short nothing. If he were a real talent he'd be 2nd at USAs at 20 like Rupp making World Champ team and repeating that dominance year after year. But, no, we're still talking about highschool, junior stuff, even NCAAs, all small time stuff.

farrell and lowe are doing okay.

Slippery Shoes wrote:

happy feet wrote:

???? uhhhh 4:00, 8:34 double at State, 2 mile HS record, solo 3:55 mile indoors, NCAA championship as a freshman, and Junior 5k record 5 seconds away from Olympic A standard.

In short nothing. If he were a real talent he'd be 2nd at USAs at 20 like Rupp making World Champ team and repeating that dominance year after year. But, no, we're still talking about highschool, junior stuff, even NCAAs, all small time stuff.

Yeah, a world junior record! What a douche!

I think what everyone is missing is that Dave Smith cares more about cross country. His program is built around the premise that OSU's fully funded distance squad goes for the win at nationals in the fall. I can't help but speculate that Dave Smith's concentration waivers in the winter and spring, which would mean a deficit of healthier and consistent runners.

He must be doing something right, look at Tom Farrell and Raul Botezan, they ran pretty good the other night.

All this speculation on GF is all fan boy, fantasy baseball crap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dG4-FNm9pg

Get a life, or better, go out for a run.

Folks like Rupp, Hall and Solinsky make the progress they make because of lots of miles over several years [/quote]

Oh, like Wheating.