Penn Relays 4x800 who ya got?

Malmo you gonna be at Penn? Id love to watch the 4x8 with you so we critique runners form and judge who is "trying harder" to win.

Gondak wrote:

So really - no fire? Come on.

I hope you don't think that winning a qualifying heat is what it's all about?

Here's is Foster's MO. Go out hard and try to maintain form. Same cadence, no emotion. When his opponents go to that space between the ears from where your kick comes from and explode, Foster maintains form and cadence. Robotic and emotionless.

I want to see that guy breathing fire when his competitors pass him next time, even if he has to put a freakin elbow in someone's chest. I want to see the guy EXPLODE - just once.

Sweden wrote:

Malmo you gonna be at Penn? Id love to watch the 4x8 with you so we critique runners form and judge who is "trying harder" to win.

You would? I don't associate with anons.

wow, malmo, you are an asshole. Even worse, you are an asshole with absolutely no clue what you are talking about. o

Good race, in high school....

Foster is probably one of the most relaxed runners around. Watch the FOUR Big Ten titles that he has won, all when he puts the hurt on the rest of the field in the last 200m. Dominated Sowinski who went on to be 4th indoors at NCAA this year. Kicking him down and holding him off in the last 200. 400m bests of about 49 versus sowinski's 46. Maybe he doesn't explode because that's not the type of runner he is. Would you rather see a steady cadence 1.46-7 or an explosive kick to run 1.52?

You treat these guys like they were blue chippers who are barely achieving to their talent level. Foster was a 4.12 miler in high school and didn't break 1.50 until his sophomore year of college. Dawson was a 1.58 runner in high school. There are plenty of guys in the NCAA with their talent level who never do anything.

The sad thing is Malmo that maybe one day you'll meet these guys, and knowing the PSU team like I do, there is a high likelihood somebody has pointed this thread out to them and they've all had a good laugh at your expense. Your old-timer hyperbole is bullshit. You don't know anything about this. Move on old man, not even the trolls are coming out to agree with you this time.

Agreed about Owen Dawson...if anyone has seen him or Kyle Dawson run you know how dirty they will get to close a race. Going from 1:58open/1:54relay in HS to 1:47 open in college is far from robotic :)

As for judging what is going through a runners mind as he closes a race by what he is showing on his face is illogical. There is a huge disconnect between what a runner is showing physically at the end of the race and what he is thinking mentally.

Certainly as fans we want to see emotion...but there is so much more to it then that.

PSU has the talent to contend this year for sure.. whether they are being robotic or bleeding from their eyes at the end of the race. If they can get a big leg from Borchers I think they win.

i understand they will have one hot heat, CHAMPIONSHIP OF AMERICA. with 2 slower heats,

how many do they take in the hot heat, how are they gonna split them up. here's a link to the start list

http://pennrelaysonline.com/Results/results.aspx?en=485

"Would you rather see a steady cadence 1.46-7 or an explosive kick to run 1.52?"

I hope that the straw man argument isn't taught as formal logic at Penn State now?

I'm not acting like they are a bunch of under-performing high school blue-chippers (only one of them is). I'm simply representing the facts: they come down to Franklin Field with a huge advantage on paper and then get destroyed on the track. Most of you young hotheads would call that choking with a capital "C". I don't like to use the word choke. I'd prefer to try to identify why their results in the heat of battle don't match the results on paper. I say their 'performance deficit', euphemistically speaking, is the result of a lack of competitive fire in their eyes and can be fixed. Your response is to caterwaul and get angry at me and so you call me an asshole.

They don't even have to win to impress me. All they need to do is to is run anywhere near their paper times. Restraining themselves on the first lap of each leg would be a huge step in the right direction. Walking into Franklin Field like they own the place is the other.

Someone needs to light a fire under their under-performing asses.

Here, I'll preemptively provide your ad hominem arguemnt for you: I'm old, I'm jealous, I suck, I'm a hater, I'm stupid, I'm an asshole.

I've already told you want I think needs to be done, now you tell me what they are going to do to turn around the performance deficit?

igotquestions wrote:

i understand they will have one hot heat, CHAMPIONSHIP OF AMERICA. with 2 slower heats,

how many do they take in the hot heat, how are they gonna split them up. here's a link to the start list

http://pennrelaysonline.com/Results/results.aspx?en=485

Championship of America will have at least 12 teams in it.

Here is another flaw in your argument. Where on paper have they ever had a "huge advantage".

Last years teams from memory

Virginia: 1.49/1.48/1.46/1.45

Oregon: 1.48/1.47/1.46/1.43

PSU: 1.48/1.47/1.46/1.46

The result: PSU get outkicked by two of the best kickers the NCAA has ever seen.

The year before their line up was 1.50/1.49/1.49/1.48 against a Texas team containing the Everett twins and JHern. Yes they get rolled.

The truth is they run a lot of indoor races, so by the time they get to Penn they have times on the board better than most teams due to opportunities. Fact is they have never been head and shoulders above any other team. Could they have put together an amazing team that conquered that 1985 record? Yes, but that was a rare day, with rare circumstances, that produced a crazy fast result. That team never managed to do it again...

And it's not a straw man argument. You said you want to see him explode, the only way that happens is off a slow pace. So take your pick Malmo, 1.46 done at a steady cadence, or an EXPLOSIVE slower race.

Did not see Virginia Military Institute listed for Penn. They had the #1 time in the USA indoor with their 7:24 at the IC4A Championships. Rumor is they are red-shirting two of their guys on that relay team. Too bad, they might have been in the mix.

Lifetime Personal Best:

Felix Kitur Sr: 1:46

Andrey Dmitriev Fr: 1:50

Dean Gonsalves Sr: 1:51

Jocob Lysher Fr: 1:52

Your memory is flawed. Going into Penn Relays PSU had a huge advantage on paper. It had been laid out in detail on threads before the race.

I see how this works, the day was "rare", the "circumstances" were rare. No, nothing about the four individuals holding the stick? How ridiculous.

Perhaps you've just identified what's wrong with this team's mindset. If you think that the only way for a runner to explode at the end of a race is for it to be slow, then, to borrow from your trembling anonymous handle you're "not getting it."

not getting it wrote:Excuses, excuses, excuses

I given you my opinion as to what the problem is and what needs to be done to fix it.

I'll even give you a Borchers Exclusion. This discussion applies to everyone but him. Borchers is like a box of chocolates. The Borchers problem can only be solved by graduation.

Why don't you tell me what needs to be done to get a team that comes into the relays as an overwhelming favorite to simply step up to the plate and compete without underperforming? How do you turn biomechanoids in to fierce human warriors?

No American team is going to come close to Edwin Allen from Jamaica. Edwin Allen qualified today (Thurs, 4/28/11) with a 8:57.98 without their best runner,Ristananna Tracey. Their slowest runner ran 2:21.5 when qualifying today. Tracey has ran 2:03 already this year. Do the math.

BTW Tracey broke the Penn Relays record in winning the 400m hurdles in 56.17 today. She ran 55 point at the Jamaican Boys & Girls Champs, which at the time was the fastest time in the world.

Peace

Jam4Win wrote:

No American team is going to come close to Edwin Allen from Jamaica. Edwin Allen qualified today (Thurs, 4/28/11) with a 8:57.98 without their best runner,Ristananna Tracey. Their slowest runner ran 2:21.5 when qualifying today. Tracey has ran 2:03 already this year. Do the math.

BTW Tracey broke the Penn Relays record in winning the 400m hurdles in 56.17 today. She ran 55 point at the Jamaican Boys & Girls Champs, which at the time was the fastest time in the world.

Peace

I dont't know their form was too good the last 100 meters. They need to show more fire before I show them respect.

((((---Virginia---)))) Wins by 50 Meters.

Heard it here first.

******FIFTY********

Bunny Suit wrote:

((((---Virginia---)))) Wins by 50 Meters.

Heard it here first.

******FIFTY********

I'll pay you a dollar for every meter Virginia wins by. If they lose you will pay me a dollar for every meter they finish behind first place. You man enough to take me up on this?

malmo wrote:

Someone needs to light a fire under their under-performing asses.

Malmo, if you don't mind me asking, what is your outlook on the coaches.. Gondak, Sullivan?

I feel like a lot of the weaknesses, downfalls, that you've pointed out about Foster, Loxsom, etc are not simply a reflection of their individual demeanor, but also what is preached to them as a program.

I would say the culture of the program is largely to blame. I feel like it has turned from a gritty, hard nosed team, to a very individual based elitest team, especially in the distance program. I think some of the Pennsylvania native guys still bring that Groves-esque attitude, but the big-name, national recruits, don't replicate that. I feel like thats part of the void in terms of simply being performers and being outright aggressors.