Bill Squires Sounds Like A Raging Egomaniac

have no experience (or actually any knowledge of - except a vague awareness - and whats been posted on this thread - so this make me an expert) with Squires. But the comment about no talent is a bit rich.

I do know that Ed Mendoza ran 4:03.1 @ Arizona and was 2X Cal JC xc state champ - and pretty well dominated the JC wars for the two yrs he was there (Grossmont) - Ran 10,000m in 28:23.2 while at Arizona.

Also later joined with Larsen's group (Jamul Toads) to win the AAU xc championships, getting 11th place ~ 18sec or so seconds behind the winner.

Toads were pretty much a who's who of So Cal (San Diego) High School Distances stars, who had also made some noise at the collegiate level. Mendoza was also an Olympian in '76 (?). Now I would say that was talent.

Bab Larsen (legendary Grossmont JC coach) quote: "Mendoza was incredibly talented–on the same level as Meb."

Maybe Squires was saying the no talent thing for some kind of effect, but there were plenty of colleges/coaches that would have been more than happy to have signed Ed Mendoza, prior to their association as coach athlete.

I you want to get a little insight about Coach Squires, read Dick Beardsley's book "Staying the Course".

Hi Hodgie!

Nice to meet up with you again.

I absolutley agree with you 100%.

Squires is a sweetheart....was then too. He'd have you run your heart out for a piece of gum...lol!!

He'd do anything for the people he was a coaching and I don't think he got a dime. Well, perhaps from Boston State College..but other than that nothing...all from the heart.

Hi Patti,

We will be at the Crossroads Pub on Saturday afternoon. I hope to see you and Dan there.

Perhaps Coach Squires will make an appearance. "King Squires has spoken, all depart"

(with cocktail napkin and unintelligible workout plan haha)

See you at the Crossroads. I remember Squires summed up his coaching style with the comment, "Just get the horses together and let 'em run."

Tom

Larry Olsen Lives wrote:

Is there one single thing or a number of factors that you think led to such improvement? Were your just destroying your workouts leading up to Boston? What kind of mileage/workouts were you doing that year?

I shouldn't be, but I am continually amazed by the number of idiots who think that training is somehow about 'destroying' workouts. It's not. Until the day comes that you understand this you will never maximize your talents.

The best coaches, and specifically the best marathon coach this country has ever seen (Squires), understood this, and imbued it into his athletes until it was second nature.

To the original poster - you don't have a f***ing clue what 'Coach' was about.

I think these last set of comments from folks that were coached by Squires or knew him well during this era are an indication of what a rare character this man truly was.

I only met him once, but what a delight.

malmo wrote:

To the original poster - you don't have a f***ing clue what 'Coach' was about.

Well, he apparently thinks he coached runners who did not have much talent. Is that what you think? Malmo, you are NOT addressing my point. I never stated he was not a good or great coach.

To the original question about "talent"...nobody knows what Squires means by "talent."

Tom

To the talent discussion,

Its all relative, isn't it. I mean, do I have talent? I was a mid 90s hs miler who ran 20-30 miles a week and managed a 2:00/4:35. In college, I was a 50-60 mpw guy and ran 1:58, 4:02, 8:39 and 15:20. But 15:20 with what amounts to essentially no lifetime base isn't awful either.

I guarantee every one of Squires guys was more talented then me. Off of 50-60 a week, they probably could have run a 5k 1:00 faster at least. Is 14:20 World Class? No. But on 50-60 a week, its pretty good. Give me a 14:20 collegiate 5k guy on 50-60 a week, with the desire to do whatever it takes to get better, and I can get him to sub 2:20. Of course, I would be using every single one of Squires methods to get him there... and I think that is the point. Down to 2:08-12... I don't know... that seems pretty far fetched for my coaching abilities, but I suppose Squires could and did do it!

Squires had above average talent. But he was also a coaching genius. Sounds like every single one of his athletes LOVED him and would do anything for him.

I don't care what he comes off as in an interview. He is my coaching hero. I also would have loved to see what he did with the guys like me.

Bob, George, do you know what type of successes he had with the guys who were 15:00 types in college?

jesse was a friend wrote:

malmo wrote:

To the original poster - you don't have a f***ing clue what 'Coach' was about.

Well, he apparently thinks he coached runners who did not have much talent. Is that what you think? Malmo, you are NOT addressing my point. I never stated he was not a good or great coach.

My impression of the article is that's just the way Squires talks, and may not exactly be what he thinks. I'd guess that what he thinks is that talent doesn't mean much to him. What did was to show up every day and run unimpressive workouts until you broke 2:11.

If Ryan Hall had any sense, he'd move to Boston right now.

Bill is a legend and you my friend are a moron. If you've ever met Bill you know his surly, crass demeanor but the reality is he knew the Boston course like the back of his hand, setup what remains one of the best running clubs in America and as the previous posters have said probably coached more sub 2:14 marathoners than anyone in US history.

Southie wrote:

Bill is a legend and you my friend are a moron. If you've ever met Bill you know his surly, crass demeanor but the reality is he knew the Boston course like the back of his hand, setup what remains one of the best running clubs in America and as the previous posters have said probably coached more sub 2:14 marathoners than anyone in US history.

Another sycophantic dunce sans reasoning capacity. You are not capable of cogent discourse, and you apparently cannot read with comprehension.

All right, just shut the hell up. If you can't understand that Squires was making a distinction between "talent as it applies to any guy on the street" and "talent as it applies to a world class athlete" and all the words from athletes WHO WERE COACHED BY SQUIRES then you're just here to cause trouble.

Look at what Squires said. "I would have chosen not one of my athletes if I were recruiting for a Division I school."

Beardsley's college best for a mile was 4:28. Now, the mile is a far cry from a marathon, but if some guy came on letsrun and posted that he was a 4:28 college miler who just ran his first marathon in 2:41, would you saydo you think D1 coaches were knocking down his door to recruit him? Nope. he could run 2:08:53? If Beardsley's COLLEGE pr was 4:28,

Rodgers ran 9:36 for two miles in high school. Relative to the hordes of kids who do similar training in high school and run 10:36, sure, Rodgers was "talented" but that's obviously not what Squires meant.

I can't find anything on Meyer's high school times, so maybe he was a 4:06 HS stud recruit and Squires is just a hateful old man.

Since obviously Squires wasn't talking about their post-collegiate careers when he was referring to their talent (who would recruit a 28 year old 2:10 marathoner with no eligibility left?) it's clear by "talent" he meant "relative to the guys they were beating, my athletes weren't necessarily the most talented runners from high school or college."

And he was right. And you're behaving like a jerk. And I'm going to stop posting on this thread.

-relative youngster who knows his history

craigmac4h wrote:

Beardsley's college best for a mile was 4:28. Now, the mile is a far cry from a marathon, but if some guy came on letsrun and posted that he was a 4:28 college miler who just ran his first marathon in 2:41, would you say he could run 2:08:53? If Beardsley's COLLEGE pr was 4:28, do you think D1 coaches were knocking down his door to recruit him? Nope.

I mangled two sentences, I fixed them in the quoted post above. My apologies.

Jessie,

Time to give it up.

Sorry

Kempainen was not a miler either. So what? He had world class talent for the marathon and he trained smart, much like the studs that Squires coached.

jesse was a friend wrote:

Craigmac, you're out of your league here...So, yeah, I would stop posting if I were you. We are not discussing talent to run the mile. Squires trained these guys for the marathon, and they had world class talent (Rodgers, Beardsley and Meyer). Squires may have been a GREAT coach, but he did not train talentless men to run under 2:10. Got it? Learn from your superiors...

Hindsight is always 20-20. Sure, AFTER those guys ran under 2:10, it's easy to go "yeah they were talented." Go back to what Squires said- if he were a Division I coach, he wouldn't have recruited those guys.

Prior to their marathon performances, would you have recruited them? Would you have looked at little Billy Rodgers, 9:36 two-miler at age 18, and gone "oh yeah, this is a 2:09 guy just WAITING to happen!"?

craigmac4h wrote:

jesse was a friend wrote:

Craigmac, you're out of your league here...So, yeah, I would stop posting if I were you. We are not discussing talent to run the mile. Squires trained these guys for the marathon, and they had world class talent (Rodgers, Beardsley and Meyer). Squires may have been a GREAT coach, but he did not train talentless men to run under 2:10. Got it? Learn from your superiors...

Hindsight is always 20-20. Sure, AFTER those guys ran under 2:10, it's easy to go "yeah they were talented." Go back to what Squires said- if he were a Division I coach, he wouldn't have recruited those guys.

Prior to their marathon performances, would you have recruited them? Would you have looked at little Billy Rodgers, 9:36 two-miler at age 18, and gone "oh yeah, this is a 2:09 guy just WAITING to happen!"?

Don't forget that when Bill graduated from Wesleyan his 2 mile pr was still only 8:58, slower than all the big dogs that Alberto is coaching ran in HS.