You have to admire Blake Russell (4th Olympic trials) for her aggressive front running

I agree Blake went out too hard, but maybe she's setting herself up to break one in the future. Maybe the Oly Trials isn't the best place to try and run a fast pace considering the consequences if you fall apart, but I like to see people try and bust one.

mjlt

I agree with the last four words of your post. It seems that everyone that is saying Blake had bad tactics are doing so without knowing what she planned. Blake rightfully feels she is capable of faster than 2:30 and went out to do so; however, she went out faster than even she planned. While her tactics may have been benefical to her goal, only her execution and LACK OF EXPERIENCE AT PACING prevented her from her objective.

One poster said that other opportunities may or may not come for Blake, but as long as this lady stay healthy or without a MAJOR injury she will have other opportunities.

Vipam

Incredibly well said.

I applaud Blake Russell.

Dare I say that most of us who have run multiple marathons have either blown up or stepped off the course at some point.

We all know what we are capable of when we toe the line, and doing less than our best if generally the result of poor pacing.

The trials are different. Perfect pacing and 4th pace doesn't get you to the games. Blake obviously thought it would take a time well below 2:30 to get to the games, and she went for it.

It takes guts to run a pace from the gun when you know you are likely to blow up. However, she made this decision because she thought it would get her to Athens. She undoubtedly knew the odds were overwhelmingly against her, and decided to roll the dice.

I personally would rather see an athlete like Deena, Meb, Culpepper, etc. go through the half with the leaders in Athens than run even splits and finish 30th.

I, too, applaud Blake Russell's attempt. In hind sight, it didn't work out as she planned but Rhines passed her less than 1/2 mile from the finish. On another day, who knows? So, maybe Russell knew what she was doing after all. My real beef, however, is with De Roueck. Naturalized or not, I don't think she should be able to represent a country that only recently adopted her. Maybe the US should stop being the cesspool that accepts anyone, anytime, from anywhere. Sure, I'll catch heat for this, but I don't think DeRoueck, Khannouchi, or Meb K. have any right representing the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Hey, we might suck in international competition but I'd rather it be the US born and bred athletes sucking than some johnny come lately foreigner. Once Russell gets her strength back she ought walk up to Colleen and slap the shit out of her and tell her to go back to Johannisburg.

Excuse me...does anyone here knows how Tamara Lave did today?

Lave did not run/finish.

When ANYONE earns a US Citizenship, it entitles them to the full rights and responsibilities we all have. It doesn't come easily or quickly. I am proud of people who want to become US citizens and work for that. They represent what our ancestors accomplished to succeed here.

Anyone that suggests that Colleen does not deserve to go does not have a clear understanding of US citizenship. Colleen and her family deserve to be here, and deserve our praises, our thanks, our gratitude, our support. They make what is the best in the US, unlike those that think she should be slapped.

team USA:Nice job! If your goal was to kill a good post with some educated discussions from both sides...mission accomplished. There are certain quotes that are simply so moronic and short-sighted that they can kill a good post. Yours ranks up there with the best of them...HoovisIf your

team USA wrote:

My real beef, however, is with De Roueck. Naturalized or not, I don't think she should be able to represent a country that only recently adopted her. Maybe the US should stop being the cesspool that accepts anyone, anytime, from anywhere.

Once Russell gets her strength back she ought walk up to Colleen and slap the shit out of her and tell her to go back to Johannisburg.

ok, I'll admit I went for the outrageous statement in order to generate some ferver. perhaps what I'm really upset about is the decline of the American born athlete. 20 years ago, Rogers, Virgin, Beardsley and others helped the US to be the pace setters of the world. now, we're also rans. THIS is what pisses me off. (Bob) Kennedy went to live/train with the Kenyans a few years back but that didn't produce the desired (i.e. Olympic gold) results.

So, Hoovis, what does it take for the US to return to dominance in the distance events?

You realize tha when the americans were dominating the East Africans weren't seriously involved in the sport?

Guest

It is nice to see someone else who share similiar views, I simply think its best to try and run to your fullest potential instead of playing it safe all the time. Shalane Flanagan and Katie McGregor are two other women who impressed me with their intent to compete with the world's best at the World X-Country meet this year (Shalane finished 14-short course and Katie 28th-long course) as both women went out with the leaders and held on as long as possible. They did so at a World Championships and had better results then Blake did at the Olympic trials, so I think we need more runners to attempt gutsy performances.

We have not medaled in any distance 1500m and longer in Outdoor Worlds or Olympics in nearly a decade, so if more of our top athletes try being competitive-sooner or later the dividends will pay off in the long run. There is no difference in attempting to be competitive and finishing 20th or running conservatively and finishing 15th (say in a marathon). No prize money or rankings, so why not try and be competitive and see if you have an breakthru day? I think that is the mind-frame Blake takes to the marathon.

Vipam

Miles and Miles wrote:Of course this wouldn't be Letsrun if someone (everyone) didn't put her down for it. How many people have really gone after their dream like that? I know I wasn't able to at the Trials. Look at the times, there were a lot of people that didn't even finish or make the "B" standard qualifying time.

I respect what you have done and your dedication to maximizing your potential. I also agree that the peanut gallery on this board is quick to shred anyone that doesn't produce a Geb/El G caliber performance every time they race.

But I believe you are wrong on this count.

There is a a fine, but very important, line between "going for it" and just being galactically stupid. Drawing a rough correlation between Blake's PR and yours, her 5:05 early on would have been roughly the equivalent you dropping a 4:35-4:40 early on. If you did that that, would you consider yourself brave or merely stupid? What if you ran 4:25? Or 4:20? What would you expect would happen 15 or 20 miles later? If someone with a 13:20 PR runs a 4:05 first mile of the 5000 of the Trials, are they courageous or stupid? What if they run 4:00? At some point, "going for it" is no longer going for it, but a simple lack of self control and self-knowledge.

Maybe this is one of the reasons we see so many rookie mistakes in this country. In order to learn, one has to be able to say, "you know, I did a really, really stupid thing" and LEARN from that. But we are so starved for any high-level performance, even stupidity is applauded. This is not unlike the schools doing away with grading so kids don't get their self-esteem hurt. Our top people have be willing do something stupid and be held accountable. It's the only way anyone learns to be great at anything. Praising Blake for this doesn't help. But, like most top runners, she doesn't give a crap what we think and she has already said herself it was stupid. Why are you guys still defending this when she herself has said she did something stupid? I don't get it.

BTW, I agree with those that responded to my initial post that Sell's performance was not the same and he was not a good example for me to use.

...opinions are like assholes-- everybody's got one (except for vipam, who has thousands of them)...

Zat0pek

I have read numerous of your post and thought majority of them were insightful or agreed with most of them; however, your stating Blake's run was stupid or that she did a "really, really stupid thing" is sad at best.

Blake has admitted to going out faster than she planned; however, she knows that she is CURRENTLY in better shape than 2:30. The only thing she did wrong was go out so fast that it hurt her in the end, IF SHE HIT HER TARGET GOAL OF 1:13 AT HALFWAY I'm sure that everyone would be singing a different tune. Blake's training evidently showed she was capable of a 2:26-2:27 marathon; however, pacing was her culprit. This attitude of many posters on this thread is what limits our Americans in general we just want to be first American or post a decent time and not risk anything. In international competition how many African, top Oriental, or Europeans do you see routinely taking chances with the pace-A GREAT DEAL! Yes Blake suffered this time but with alittle more experience she will do fine if she remains healthy.

Vipam

So, Hoovis, what does it take for the US to return to dominance in the distance events?[/quote]

George Steinbrenner to become the owner of US Track & Field? Marathon times under 2:07? Drugs just slightly more effective than the ones Regina Jacobs was using? Frank Shorter to come out of retirement? For us all to ban the internet and get out running again?

Great questin, but hell if I know...

Hoovis

I have been keeping my mouth shut over this issue for a while now...and I am glad someone finally discussed this issue. Although I do not agree entirely with Team USA, I think that there is a problem. There are a lot of elite athletes who change citizenship for the sole purpose of the Olympic games. I personally, know of quite a few. Also, look at the case last year with Cherono (sp?). So now we have countries buying athletes. Colleen had metioned during an interview that South Africa told her that she would not be put on another Olympic Team bc she would be too old. She said that then she decided to apply for US citizenship. Hell, maybe I should marry someone from some country so I can be on an Olympic team.

NCAA has a policy to prevent trading wars....if you transfer you must sit out. I think that the IAAF or whatever organziation should imply the same type of guideline. For any athlete who changes citizenship, they should not be allowed to represent that country for a set period. Therefore it would ensure that athletes apply for citizenship for the right reasons.

I mean it is getting ridiculous...representing one country and a month later being on a world team for another??

Meb---grew up here...he didn't change citizenship as an elite.

Vipam wrote:

if she simply held on for 3rd place and made the team everyone would be saying she was brave, great, etc.

Wrong. I would have said she was lucky.

In my opinion she's gaining experience at how international marathon (san Athens) are sometimes run and we need athletes that are willing to put it all on the line.

The trials are the wrong place to test a tactic that would not be effective nor useful anywhere.

The athletes today more often than not go steady from the gun and increase the speed posting fast times.

Right.

While she didn't make the team I think it shows she have great marathon potential and with more marathon racing experience she will be one of U.S. best marathoners soon and that fearlessness will be a great weapon then.

Right it shows her potential, but only if she learns how to race and not waste her energy.

Vipam wrote:

Blake has admitted to going out faster than she planned; however, she knows that she is CURRENTLY in better shape than 2:30. The only thing she did wrong was go out so fast that it hurt her in the end, IF SHE HIT HER TARGET GOAL OF 1:13 AT HALFWAY I'm sure that everyone would be singing a different tune. Blake's training evidently showed she was capable of a 2:26-2:27 marathon; however, pacing was her culprit. This attitude of many posters on this thread is what limits our Americans in general we just want to be first American or post a decent time and not risk anything. In international competition how many African, top Oriental, or Europeans do you see routinely taking chances with the pace-A GREAT DEAL! Yes Blake suffered this time but with alittle more experience she will do fine if she remains healthy.

Vipam

I think it is the American men who are just content to be top American and keep their shoe contract. And while what Russell did could be seen as laudable, maybe she's not the best example talent-wise. Even if she ran 1:13/1:13 splits, in a race like London she'd be far back. While people are ragging on her for blowing up, I wonder if Vipam would be praising her so much if she had run even 1:15/1:15 splits to finish fourth.

Guest wrote:

I personally would rather see an athlete like Deena, Meb, Culpepper, etc. go through the half with the leaders in Athens than run even splits and finish 30th.

Yes, that's it, that's it exactly. The Games are much, much deeper than the trials, and a "sensible" even split race like Jen Rhines will not likely let one slip back in for a medal. I'm tired of watching the U.S. team men go out together in 1:06:30 to target 2:13 (although they always seem to end up around 2:15) as if getting into the top 20 is a goal. I'll say publicly now that if Meb and Pepper hang with the leaders through half, even if it's sub-1:04, and then blow-up in mile 22, that's still a better run than 1:06:30/2:15. The winner (and really, nowadays, the medals) are going to come from the lead group. A guy who takes a flyer at a medal and ends up 40th (think Rodgers in '76) had a better race than some guy who aimed at 20th and got it.

Heck, if folks aren't even going to try to hang with the leaders, say so now and let us send an extra rhythmic gymnast or some such thing instead.