Dismal race for Webb (1:51) ... he's done

That's obviously not actually the poster who started this thread...

1:51 first race back isn't terrible....anyone who has run the 8 knows that. A 1:58 guy might run 2:03 or worse at the start of the season (never mind taking off a year or two). And a out of shape 1:45 guy (what I believe webb can run given 3-5 months) can certainly open the season with a 1:51 in the rain. Maybe he would have run 1:49 if the conditions were better. Rupp ran 1:48 when he was a bit sick, 1:51 isn't that far of a stretch.

I'm going to say by late indoors he will be in 1:45 shape. By 2012 he will be in 1:42.high/1:43.low shape. IMO

At least he's not injured- 2012 is a ways off; "talent doesn't go away"

I wonder, though, if he shouldn't really start thinking about bumping up. I mean, 2007 wasn't ages ago, but it wasn't yesterday, either. And truth be told, Webb's run several of these weird, disappointing races in the mid-distances, whereas his longer(ish) distance races have been stunning. I mean, at 13:10, isn't he sort of the best 5k runner we never talk about?

jag wrote:

I wonder, though, if he shouldn't really start thinking about bumping up. I mean, 2007 wasn't ages ago, but it wasn't yesterday, either. And truth be told, Webb's run several of these weird, disappointing races in the mid-distances, whereas his longer(ish) distance races have been stunning. I mean, at 13:10, isn't he sort of the best 5k runner we never talk about?

I agree; he'll leave the 1500 to Wheating. Many forget he recorded in 2005 7:35.4c with a SB of 3:31.3c. I doubt he can return to 3:29.4c shape or go <13'00 but wouldn't put a 3:30.high out of his reach, with which he could be a real threat in tactical champs.

At that point 13:05 Webb takes 12:55 to the cleaners with his 1500 speed.

with a 1.51...MAYBE he could be a pace maker trainer for Magness.

It is not the time that he ran here that is significant.

If he ran 1:51 because he was merely rusty and out of shape, well, OK.

But what concerns me is that he is in better shape than he raced. I just don't think he can handle competitive racing any longer - and I don't mean this in a harsh way. His head is not in it, and hasn't been for two years. I really wonder how traumatic the 5k road race he dropped out of was for him. I suspect more than he would admit - because he hasn't really raced since. I was so surprised he was chopping his stride in the first 200M, as if caution was the foremost desire above all else, plunking himself in the back of a field with no one anywhere near as talented as he is.

My guess is that he could time trial faster than he raced today, and that is the problem. I don't wish ill on this athlete who I have observed since 9th grade and think very highly of, but it seems something has left him. Track can be a challenging endeavor, with the time at the top only a few brief years for many. I don't like what I am seeing.

I thought Webb looked skinny and lacked the muscular tone that he portayed in 2007, when he was "lean," meaning low body fat, muscular and strong, (perhaps drugs) as opposed to his thin and weak frame of today - his shorts even looked too big in this race and for a naturally talented guy he seemed to lack the basic competiveness and strength needed to respond to mild increases in pace during the last lap of a 2 lap race, with a bunch of no names?

His 1:52 time is one thing, but his lack of ability to be competitive with second rate runners is another. Crap, he was 7th out of a field of 10 runners. Long term plan or not, hard to imagine how much positive could come out of this for him? Looked more demoralizing than anything!!

Let's see .... some people are ready to say he's done.

Mark Twain said it - "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated."

For those who only look at the times in a race, and then take the story out of context: Maybe he ran a tough track workout on Thursday? Maybe he ran some 200's in :29 prior to the race?

I ran an 800 meters 1:50.07 on June 16th (splits 26.0-53.1-1:21.0-29.1)

Go ahead - guess: What time did I run for the 1500 meters 73 days after this race:

The 800 meters race above was at the TAC championships (now USATF's), and a terrible showing.

Hint - June 24th - 8 days later - 3:59.21 mile (60-1:59-3:00.9-58.31) for 3rd place

Let's see ... he must be done. This is such an important year, with so many championships at stake. Don't look long term - who cares about next year.

Try basing his performance on Championships, and how he runs over the next two years.

Look at it this way: Justin Gatlin spends four years in exile and comes back with a respectable time. Webb comes back with a piece of crap. Had Gatlin run 10.8 I would say he's done. No sane person would disagree. 1:51 is the equivalent of 10.8. This guy is done.

Is it possible he was just kind of using this race as a workout? Maybe Salazaar had given him strict orders to run 56 - 56 which he did. I think Webb could have easily crushed 1:50 today.

tagurit wrote:

Look at it this way: Justin Gatlin spends four years in exile and comes back with a respectable time. Webb comes back with a piece of crap. Had Gatlin run 10.8 I would say he's done. No sane person would disagree. 1:51 is the equivalent of 10.8. This guy is done.

But Gatlin was coming back from a period where he simply couldn't race. That's quite a bit different from what Webb's coming back from.

It didn't look good, but give Webb a full season of training before making those judgements.

And BTW 1:51 is officially (IAAF) the equivalent of about 10.5.

Of course, Gatlin is coached by Loren Seagrave, who most recently coached Dwight Phillips to the gold medal in the LJ.

The coaching accomplishments of Loren Seagrave and Alberto Salazar are "slightly" different.

johnny wrote:

Is it possible he was just kind of using this race as a workout? Maybe Salazaar had given him strict orders to run 56 - 56 which he did. I think Webb could have easily crushed 1:50 today.

Alberto said Rupp has been doing a hundred a week the past 4 weeks which includes both his 5K and 3K races, 100 mile weeks is the highest he ever hits. Something tells me Webb is not rested and sharp right now for 800 ;-)

Original poster must be a moron!

A 1:51 after two years is better than most runners anywhere. If Webb is smart he'll continue to take it slow like he is doing for 2012 olympics

A couple of things.

1) This is a bizarrely bad thread, and I find myself hating Gray Matter.

2) 1.52 is not a great result for someone who has run 1.43. Racing tired costs parts of seconds, or a second or two at worst. Starting a build-up 'fresh' as Webb is thanks to his enforced lay-off fitness should come back pretty fast even on 40-50 miles a week a 1.43 man should be able to run ~1.47. Also isn't he blessed with 47sec type basic speed? Makes 56 sec splits look a bit silly.

In saying this, Webb has phenomenal endurance too so can potentially still run very low 3.40's or below off even that poor of an 800.

Am I really the only one not surprised by this result? I can't believe people were expecting much better. Think about when ncaa indoor track begins, you see plenty of ncaa 800 studs opening in the 150-1 range, and nobody makes a fuss. Webb hasn't raced in over a year, and has only been running for a few months.

NFW wrote:

I don't think his performance today is in any way indicative of what he is capable of with 6-12 months of solid training.

What the f@3k has he been doing for the past 2 years?

Too many good young guys out there. Wheating, Manzano, Lomong, Andrews, Acosta just for starters. Can't see Webb getting past any of those guys. Lots of other great young guys out there too German Fennandez among others come to mind. Well Webb started early, so he had a good run.