Ice Baths - How often during summer base training?

The ice bath is only effective if you submerge most of your body in the water instead of just the legs.

Very true inflammation is the natural response of the body to hard exercise. There is clear evidence that ice baths reduce acute inflammation and improve performance 24 hrs later, so great after heats for finals next day etc.

However the latest research is looking at chronic use on a daily basis showing that despite improved performance after a single use when used regularly it interferes with the bodies natural hormonal response that stimulates the adaptive process, thus reduced improvement in performance compared with no ice bath.

This makes sense!

Eminem Recovery wrote:

supdog wrote:

maybe it's because he has balls. putting your balls in cold water is usually pretty uncomfortable.

maybe it's because he's a moron. I could do that too, but the purpose of this thread was to see if a painful ice bath is beneficial, not to prove who has the biggest balls to do something possibly stupid

you're misunderstanding the point of my statement. what i meant is that it is uncomfortable to put your testicles in cold water, and that could be the reason why it looks as if he is in pain. because he is a male and has testicles.

ahh ok. apologies then. maybe Salazaar feels A.goucher needs the blue balls to race well?

TCB wrote:

That is not evidence at all. Just because they all do it means nothing. They might be better if they didn't do it and they might just be good in spite of it. Evidence would be a study that controls for other factors and only varies whether people take the ice baths or not. You would never take medicine that has not passed a clinical study, so why would you submerge yourself in freezing cold water when it hasn't been studied?

Look, when you have an injury do you ice it? To reduce pain and inflammation 99% of doctors will tell you to ice sports injuries. I don't see how icing a large area in place of a small area would be so much less effective, to the point of being useless.

Icing an injury and taking an ice bath are extremely different. You ice an injury because there is significant damage to one area, and the body tends to overreact with the inflammation afterwards. The damage from a workout is nothing like that from an acute injury, so the rationale is suspect. There's no reason to think that the body overreacts with inflammation after a hard workout, or that it's causing more damage by doing so.

I tend to agree with TCB. There are also some who think that NSAIDS, which limit inflammation, interfere with the normal recovery process, which is actually the normal recovery/rebuilding/getting fitter process. From an evolutionary basis, I don't think our ancestors had too much in the way of ice cubes or Advil. So we would have evolved to get stronger and fitter through local, muscular inflammation. (Chronic, systemic inflammation is a whole other deal: bad stuff related to overeating and under-exercising.)

TCB: That is not evidence at all. Just because they all do it means nothing. They might be better if they didn't do it and they might just be good in spite of it.

Stop it! Stop that right now! One of us is going to strain his extraocular muscles from rolling his eyes too hard, and it'll be your fault!

You would never take medicine that has not passed a clinical study, so why would you submerge yourself in freezing cold water when it hasn't been studied?

Do you know fdsafasdf and his medicinal practices intimately? Otherwise I wouldn't be so sure. Normal people are likely to take supplements, herbs, drink Coca-Cola to settle an upset stomach or hot whiskey with lemon and honey for a sore throat with cough, without knowing results from clinical studies. Normal people are likely to try stretching, strengthening, icing, massage, etc. to recover from and attempt to prevent injuries, based on recommendations of their peers, and to stick with what appears to work for them - not necessarily what generated the best numbers in a clinical study.

I'm 100% certain that if you went over your daily and weekly life with a fine-toothed comb, you'd find you do plenty of things without published clinical evidence of their efficacy.

In 1900, cocaine was one of the top five pharmaceutical products in the United States and was used in treatment during childbirth, during dentistry, as a cure for depression, fatigue, alcoholism, and drug addiction. Clearly the finest doctors of the day who were prescribing the stuff did not know exactly what they were doing and did more harm than good. Just because you can logically explain the effect of icing, doesn't mean that is what is really going on. Can anyone on this board honestly tell me they know how your body reacts when you submerge it in 34 degree water for 10 minutes a day for several years? To me, it seems as unnatural as snorting a gram of some South American powder everyday. It may not be nearly as dangerous, but why would you ever take that risk when you REALLY don't have to? Humans have evolved to run fast without ice baths. You should get by just fine without them too.

Bumpeth

Once again, I will point out that going into 34 degree water probably isn't good for anyone and will probably do more harm than good. 34 degree water = cocaine and very bad... 55-60 degree water = ibuprofan and good for you.

How cold of water are we talking about here? I think 34 degrees is way too cold.