Reagan was a Chickenhawk who never served in an infantry unit. He was a gay boy, swimming hunk who accompanied Hollywood Film Execs and provided physical favors to them. The microprocessor is from Busicomm (Japan) who farmed out simple digital electronics projects to Intel and Taiwan firms since they were too busy working on advanced projects.
colleger wrote:
Balls wrote:On the two main issues of the day, civil rights and the war in Vietnam, the hippies were right and the conservatives (of both parties) were wrong.
This.
Yea, right. Hippies could care less about civil rights, as long as their "rights" were not questioned. War protests were also not a part of the "hippie" agenda. You don't have a clue as to what went on in those days. The Woodstock crowd for the most part were not hippies, but young people scared to get drafted into a war they did not understand anything about. Woodstock was an escape for them, mostly being a time to party. Having long hair and smoking pot was not what hippies were about.
Hippies (real ones) were in their own little world oblivious to anything other their own lifestyle.
War protesters were not hippies and hippies were not war protesters. That is about as clear as I can make it. There was nothing glorious about the "hippie" movement (which wasn't really a "movement" to begin with, but rather a state of mind for a group of individuals who couldn't deal with life and all its complexities at that time (no different than today, by the way). Sorry to disillusion you.
Cowboy Bob wrote:
colleger wrote:This.
Yea, right. Hippies could care less about civil rights, as long as their "rights" were not questioned. War protests were also not a part of the "hippie" agenda. You don't have a clue as to what went on in those days. The Woodstock crowd for the most part were not hippies, but young people scared to get drafted into a war they did not understand anything about. Woodstock was an escape for them, mostly being a time to party. Having long hair and smoking pot was not what hippies were about.
Hippies (real ones) were in their own little world oblivious to anything other their own lifestyle.
War protesters were not hippies and hippies were not war protesters. That is about as clear as I can make it. There was nothing glorious about the "hippie" movement (which wasn't really a "movement" to begin with, but rather a state of mind for a group of individuals who couldn't deal with life and all its complexities at that time (no different than today, by the way). Sorry to disillusion you.
I don't think you get to define who the hippies were. I think there were a broad range of people who are often considered hippies and who would consider themselves hippies, but for some reason you don't. If you consider hippies to only be the few thousand degenerates that live the same way they do today as they did back then, then you are right and they are wrong. But in fact, there are millions more people who lived the hippie life for a few years then got jobs and applied what they learned from the hippie MOVEMENT towards management and changed the face of capitalism forever.
It's pretty obvious you weren't there and don't know what you are talking about. I was there and went through it.
But it is always fun to speculate. And you certainly have a right.
But when you leave I O W A and return to the planet earth let us know.
"But in fact, there are millions more people who lived the hippie life for a few years then got jobs and applied what they learned from the hippie MOVEMENT towards management and changed the face of capitalism forever."
Ok, you certainly know it better than I. Sorry for getting in your way of thinking. I would suggest with your insight you might want to start a thread on how the hippie MOVEMENT changed the face of capitalism, forever, no less. Are you going to include Bill Gates and Steve Jobs in your discussion? Who were these wonderful hippies that changed management and the face of capitalism?
Cowboy Bob wrote:
"But in fact, there are millions more people who lived the hippie life for a few years then got jobs and applied what they learned from the hippie MOVEMENT towards management and changed the face of capitalism forever."
Ok, you certainly know it better than I. Sorry for getting in your way of thinking. I would suggest with your insight you might want to start a thread on how the hippie MOVEMENT changed the face of capitalism, forever, no less. Are you going to include Bill Gates and Steve Jobs in your discussion? Who were these wonderful hippies that changed management and the face of capitalism?
I believe a book on this issue has already been recommended to you. Go read it.
As I posted earlier, I was there, I don't have to read someone's interpretation of an era/movement. I am not that stupid or oblivious of what was happening during those times. Thanks for your suggestion. You do realize that some authors write what they want to write. Have you read some of those wonderful books by Ward Churchill, the guy from U of Colorado? He, too, had a skewed view of the real world. Not everything that is written as non-fiction is....
Cowboy Bob wrote:
As I posted earlier, I was there, I don't have to read someone's interpretation of an era/movement. I am not that stupid or oblivious of what was happening during those times. Thanks for your suggestion. You do realize that some authors write what they want to write. Have you read some of those wonderful books by Ward Churchill, the guy from U of Colorado? He, too, had a skewed view of the real world. Not everything that is written as non-fiction is....
It is interesting how determined you are that you are absolutely right and that no other interpretation could possibly be true.
There's been Uncle Tom sellouts for 500 years in the US. Guys like Ward Churchill, Barack Obama, Colin Powell, J.C. Watts, Larry Elder, Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza Rice, are negroe sellouts.
Very good, smart post until the very end (like the republicans are any better, with their lack of actual fiscal conservatism when in office and their insane wars.
towhee wrote:
I know a guy who sometimes wears a t-shirt that says "THE HIPPIES WERE RIGHT." I was thinking about it and realized that the hippies were wrong on almost EVERYTHING.
I don't know how many letsrunners are old enough to remember the hippies, but it actually was a fairly short-lived phenomenon. It really took off around 1968. My recollection was it really came into full bloom around the time of the release of the Beatles 'Abbey Road' which I looked up and was dated Sept, 1969. Many young people were quitting drugs, getting haircuts, and moving on by around 1973, so it little more than a 5-year phase.
Where were the hippies wrong?
1) Drugs. No real explanation required. I'm all for drug legalization, but no reasonable person still thinks that drug use is something to be promoted like the hippies did.
2) Sex. We're still feeling the negative effects of the 'free love' theory. Single moms, (very rare when I was young), babies having babies, AIDS, etc.
3) Politics. The hippies liked socialism and flirted with communism. Mao's 'Little Red Book' was a hit among the hippies. Communism proved to be an utter failure and I believe that socialism eventually will too.
4) Non-violence. The hippies were big on non-violence. I remember hippie girls sticking flowers into the barrels of M1 Garands carried by National Guard troops. The hippies didn't like guns, and provided much impetus for the gun-control fetish of the late 20th century, one of the dumbest ideas ever. How anyone could have ever come to believe that Joe and Jane Avg. shouldn't be allowed to protect themselves against killers, rapists, and robbers, I don't know. No animal is dumb enough to give up its claws and teeth.
5) Eastern religions, new age garbage, and assorted mystical BS. I suppose every era has to have some of this, but with the hippies it became pervasive.
6) While we're on the topic, we forget that the hippies played a big role in the rise of fundamentalist Christianity. They were known as 'Jesus Freaks' and virtually all were ex-hippies who had crashed & burned with drugs. Fundamentalism had been a backwater previously. After the hippies it was a major force.
7) Exercise and fitness (had to cover this one on lets run). Very few hippies worked out. They were too stoned.
8) Grooming and dress. I suppose you have to give the hippies for popularizing more casual/comfortable clothes. But there is a reason that few people still go years without haircuts and shaves as the hippies did. It just isn't practical, unless you're Anton Krupicka and I don't know how he can run like that.
Like a stopped clock the hippies may have been right about a couple things. Some of their music was good; a lot was god-awful. I still think people like Jimi Hendrix and Led Zeppelin were great musicians. The hippies didn't invent health-food, but they gave it a big boost and clearly there is some value there. The hippies played a role in environmentalism, and we all now realize the value of clean air and water.
But despite a few contributions, the bottom line on the hippie balance sheet is a disaster. The hippies were wrong about damn near everything they held dear, and god help us if they ever come back. (Then again maybe they are back--they're called the U.S. Democratic Party).
Cowboy Bob wrote:
As I posted earlier, I was there, I don't have to read someone's interpretation of an era/movement.
You sound awfully closed-minded. Closed-mindedness is not the hallmark of intelligent people.
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2009-releases/republicans-democrats-health.htmldasfafsdaasfsadfdsasd@hasd.com wrote:
Care to back it up with a reference? Every study have I seen has shown that red states tend be much more obese than the blue ones (there are exceptions like CO and MI). Now maybe breaking down individual states by voter would change that trend but I sort of doubt it.
Republicans are also more likely to get divorced and be teenaged mothers. But they are happier with thier sex lives. Republican states also tend to be big smokers.
Of course this all pretty much correlation and politics is probably not the root cause (religion, education and poverty would be my votes) of most of these things
from the link:
"Republicans were 26% less likely to report poor health than Democrats. Republicans were also 15% less likely to be smokers compared with Democrats. "
So democrats actually smoke more. Doesn't surprise me.
Also,
"The authors hypothesize that the better health reported by Republicans may reflect the Republican value of individual responsibility, which may lead to health-promoting behaviors. They also note that Republicans may exhibit greater religiosity than Democrats, which could lead to greater health-promoting conditions, such as stronger social ties and networks. The researchers conclude that further research is required to determine whether a person's political ideology is an independent risk factor or a marker of something else. "
Interesting.
Nice to see Terminator X back posting. Now, if we can just get chuck d to return. maybe i'll change my name to Flavor Flav.
The Civil Rights & Hippies kids created the America that we have today. Before they came along it was perfectly acceptable to see black kids shot in the back and beaten bloody and screaming by white policemen. Before they came along kids would stupidly go into the army and die for nothing in faraway lands that never posed a threat to America. If the Civil Rights and Hippies kids didn't stand up to an evil U.S. Government, many of you would have never been born, since your parents would have been beaten to death, lynched, or abandoned in combat by their own buddies in Vietnam. Be glad that you are alive today because it was the 1960's Civil Rights and Hippies that transformed America into a much better place.
You made some good points but I think you're a little off on the non-violence thing. There is a difference between non-violence and gun control. The flower in gun barrels thing was a form of non-violent protest to the Vietnam War. Gun control is an entirely different matter. I have to go right now so if someone could explain the Brady Bill to this person that would be great.
Cowboy Bob wrote:
As I posted earlier, I was there, I don't have to read someone's interpretation of an era/movement. I am not that stupid or oblivious of what was happening during those times. Thanks for your suggestion. You do realize that some authors write what they want to write. Have you read some of those wonderful books by Ward Churchill, the guy from U of Colorado? He, too, had a skewed view of the real world. Not everything that is written as non-fiction is....
Just because you lived during that time doesn't make you an expert. It's not just my interpretation. Most scholars of the era believe that a counterculture movement happened during the 60s in which large groups of people decided that they should not have to conform to the usual societal norms about dress, behavior, relationships, and employment. It is also well known that there was a shift in the managerial discourse in the later half of the 20th century (try to think of the difference between Mad Men and Google). What is not immediately obvious is the connection between the counterculture message and the managerial discourse. The shift in business did not come from the conservative, traditional establishment. It came from the people who believed that big brother should not watching over them, that they shouldn't have to conform to the same old ways of thinking, and that they should work for a combined cause. Productivity and worker happiness increased as a result.
1. My wife thinks I am pretty thickheaded so she would agree with the one who posted that I was not flexible and, thus, not very intelligent.
2. I agree with your position that there was a movement from what was then the "establishment" way of doing things and how business has shifted from the old way of doing things to new, innovative ways.
But to credit the "hippie" movement for that would be too much of a reach for me.
3. I have never considered myself an expert on anything, I just get a bit tired of having people younger than I telling me what happened during my young adulthood. Revision of history is quite trendy nowadays and it seems to be touching a nerve with me. More so, since I tend to think I am a history buff of sorts and enjoy reading historical books and articles, including those of my era.
4. I view the changes over the last 50 years or so an "evolution" of thought and creativity based on better education of the masses and normal cultural changes that take place from one generation to the next.
I will end with that, as I seem to have overstayed my time...
hippies are seeeeeewwwwww geeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyy
I don't see any mention of obesity in those stats (and I didn't see a descriptoin of exactly what they are measuring. Lying with stats is an art). Maybe all the smokers in the republican states are democrats. Or maybe they are a bunch of liars. 7% for republicans and 16% for democrats is significantly lower than the national smoking average reported else where (~20%) which makes me wonder how truthful the results of the survey was. I am sure Larry Craig doesn't think he is gay either.I know a lot of studies comparing state and they consistently show blue states having lower obesity and smoking rates. Now maybe the minority democrates are ruining those red state numbers but that seems unlikely. Most states are like 60/40 split.
12345 wrote:
dasfafsdaasfsadfdsasd@hasd.com wrote:http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/2009-releases/republicans-democrats-health.htmlCare to back it up with a reference? Every study have I seen has shown that red states tend be much more obese than the blue ones (there are exceptions like CO and MI). Now maybe breaking down individual states by voter would change that trend but I sort of doubt it.
Republicans are also more likely to get divorced and be teenaged mothers. But they are happier with thier sex lives. Republican states also tend to be big smokers.
Of course this all pretty much correlation and politics is probably not the root cause (religion, education and poverty would be my votes) of most of these things
from the link:
"Republicans were 26% less likely to report poor health than Democrats. Republicans were also 15% less likely to be smokers compared with Democrats. "
So democrats actually smoke more. Doesn't surprise me.
Also,
"The authors hypothesize that the better health reported by Republicans may reflect the Republican value of individual responsibility, which may lead to health-promoting behaviors. They also note that Republicans may exhibit greater religiosity than Democrats, which could lead to greater health-promoting conditions, such as stronger social ties and networks. The researchers conclude that further research is required to determine whether a person's political ideology is an independent risk factor or a marker of something else. "
Interesting.
Balls wrote:
On the two main issues of the day, civil rights and the war in Vietnam, the hippies were right and the conservatives (of both parties) were wrong.
Yeah the conservatives were totally wrong about Vietnam. That whole domino theory thing? Totally wrong...errr wait...oh yeah the entire region DID fall to communist governments leading to the deaths of millions of civilians.
I give you civil rights...to a degree...the solutions that were brought about have created a whole new set of racial tensions for today, but it was something that was seriously wrong.