the secret is all the extras, going as close to the line as possible(and possibly over?), which ultimately to a large degree is $$$ related.........for you not to believe this, you have to believe that it is a coincidence that Galen Rupp happened to go to the same suburban Oregon school that Alberto coached at(and ran 13:37 shortly after graduating)--to me, it starts and stops there, it can't be the coaching, it's the extra's that are simply unavailable to almost all others
think it's obvious wrote:
the secret is all the extras, going as close to the line as possible(and possibly over?), which ultimately to a large degree is $$$ related.........for you not to believe this, you have to believe that it is a coincidence that Galen Rupp happened to go to the same suburban Oregon school that Alberto coached at(and ran 13:37 shortly after graduating)--to me, it starts and stops there, it can't be the coaching, it's the extra's that are simply unavailable to almost all others
I forget sometimes that Rupp has been with Salazar since HS. Wow. What are the odds?
Maybe the odds are not as wild as we think. Maybe you really CAN take the fittest kid on the soccer field or the fastest kid in the gym class mile, give him world class training, and in 4 years produce a 13:37 guy and in 8 years have him down to 27:10. Maybe people with world class potential are more common than we think.
Rupp is kind of like the ultimate science experiment. Take the best runner at your school, give him the ultimate training with the ultimate resources, and see what develops. None of the other studs - Ritz, Hall, Webb, Teg, Solinsky - had Alberto freaking Salazar as their high school coaches. None of them had a 10 year plan mapped out at age 17, from which there has been little or no divergence.
This is like Seb Coe and his father all over again. This is what long-term planning and consistency produces.
Seems to me that the athletes all say roughly the same thing - that they have all the equipment they need, a great group of people, and Al Sal himself.
K Goucher goes on and on about how much confidence she gets from Al Sal - that is probably the most important thing. Many elite athletes say that they need a coach they trust to tell them that they can do things. Whatever Al does seems to impart that confidence.
yep yep yep wrote:
So Kara Goucher's third place at New York and third place at Boston does not make her a first-rate marathoner?
She finished this close at Boston:
http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/runners/2009/04/09-Boston-10.jpg
No, they don't. They make her a good national-level marathoner, not a first-tier international marathoner.
S-T-A-N-O-Z-O-L-O-L
F-U-R-A-Z-A-B-O-L
M-E-T-H-A-N-D-R-O-S-T-E-N-O-L-O-N-E
M-I-C-R-O D-O-S-I-N-G
S-E-L-E-C-T-I-V-E A-N-D-R-O-G-E-N R-E-C-E-P-T-O-R M-O-D-U-L-A-T-O-R-S
i think you are agreeing to a degree with me but it's not as simple as taking the fastest guy in school and training him very hard----it is the extras-------lots of talented HS guys have been trained hard and only one has run 13:37--and he happened to go to the high school that had access to tents, etc
hj,hj wrote:
where is the wise one wrote:Use solid financial backing (Nike) to entice the best of the US to move to one location and train together. When was the last time you saw so many talented runners in one place in the US? I'm thinking maybe in the days of Shorter and crew.
This plus what the other poster said about pushing to the extent of the legal boundaries.
this is it. this set-up is what everyone was crying for back in the 90s, as well. doesn't anyone else remember all the complaining that top guys were unwilling/unable to train together like the africans all did? we all new that was a big missing piece of the equation.
then hansons moved some 2nd tier guys in together and got them working hard...and got good results. was this a surprise? i don't think.
now, sala- er, nike is doing it with the top people and giving them some serious resources to work with... and we are getting even better results. simple, and this is exactly what we should expect.
not to trivialize their accomplishments, because they deserve a lot of credit for restoring some pride to american distance running. just gotta keep one eye on that salazar!
for future reference let's leave the hanson's out of it
and thank you for your cooperation
wellnow wrote:
That's BS. Salazar believed that back in the 80's, but does he believe it now? Why don't you ask him?
great idea Einstein. I'm sure he'd love to tell us all about his doping program (if it's happening).
Years of Coaching wrote:
Stolen Bikes -
I'll tell you this. The training definitely isn't the answer. As far as training technique and training methodology, Salazar actually knows less and has less coaching experience than other coaches. Runners training together??? Kara Goucher trains with who? male rabbits maybe? Yoder Begley? She used to have a hard time breaking 34 minute for 10K on the roads. Now she's on the verge of breaking 31 minutes.
Salazar's training isn't that effective.
The Shumacker guys, well, they've trained together in the past. Their improvement? not training technique either.
Thus, let's remove training techniques, solid training plans, methods, or whatever off the equation because that isn't the reason.
You really know nothing about Salazar's training do you?
Nor do you know anything about his dedication, work ethic or coaching study/education habits.
You do know about spouting off though...
usain bolt. wrote:
salazar figured out what coaches around the world have known for decades now: PEDs are currently necessary to be world class.
He said it himself very clearly before his coaching career blew up, as many have posted here:
http://www.law.duke.edu/sportscenter/salazar.pdf
This is old nonsense, and he did not say what you contend he said -- that is an old silly LRC forum distortion.
What he actually says is probably too nuanced for you to understand.
In short what he says is that athletes will always be tempted to look for the edge, an edge.
As far as Alberto and PEDs, you can take it as fact that the directive from above is "No Peds."
Do you really think PK would fund anything that could risk Nike being part of a government investigation or prosecution?
Not to mention the fact that Alberto has for some time been a rededicated deeply religious and ethical dude.
What we do know for sure, is that a certain percentage of unhappy, jealous and bitter members of the public will always throw stones, suspicions, and outright lies, at people who are more successful than them in life.
critical thought needed wrote:
There is a BIIIIG difference between a doping regimine like what is often discovered in cycling and in Russian and Morrocan athletics and someone who is trying to follow the rules that allow them to maximize training, recovery, health and performance. The difference really comes down to ethics. If you know it's illegal and make the decision to use it that is cheating. If you are following the guidelines of what you believe is legal (again this can be tricky because the rules do change in the grey area) and you do not intend to gain advantage by using a banned substance than that is not cheating. Many people are not capable of complex thought so they like to break it down to black or white, right or wrong, and the problem with that is 90% of the real world is shades of grey. I'd wager that 90% of the top runners in the world are working in shades of grey with maybe one or two percent totally out of the grey (not pushing the limits) and eight or nine percent clearly cheating. For the 90% or so in the middle it depends on their diligence and knowledge and perhaps moral compass to determine which shade of grey they are operating in. Ignorance could cause them to be a very light or dark shade, even while not intentional.
One of the most insightful and intelligent posts I've ever seen on letrun.
fitnessisamentalstate wrote:
"Alberto has his athletes run, other coaches have them do cross fit."
woah woah woah. I reject your reality, sir. You have no idea how much CrossFitting helps. I was a 20 minute 5km guy, now I'm ripping 17/18's like it's my job. Think before you post. And CrossFit, before you think
Thanks
-fitnessisamentalstate
You Sir are a hoot! I did your style man!
What has Alberto figured out?
1. Continuous training yields gains. Injuries interrupt continuity.
2. Science works. If we can use it to put a man on the moon, we can use it for injury prevention.
3. Quality>volume
4. If you want footspeed, you must run fast to be fast. No amount of overdistance will make you sprint faster. A little maintenance of your top speed goes a long way.
5. Lydiard is overrated.
6. Peter Coe is underrated.
7. Hook 'em while they're young.
I hear Landis is a Mennonite
Get Real Real wrote:
Not to mention the fact that Alberto has for some time been a rededicated deeply religious and ethical dude.
Get Real Real wrote:
d not say what you contend he said -- that is an old silly LRC forum distortion.
What he actually says is probably too nuanced for you to understand.
this is funny, since alberto says, and I quote: "I believe that it is currently difficult to be among the top 5 in the world in any of distance events without using EPO or HGH."
there is no nuance there unless you're distorting it to believe what you want.
alberto knew/knows that doping was/is rampant. He pointed out that it was why times were dropping below where he ran, and it was easy for him to say that when he was retired and not yet (at least seriously) coaching.
now he's getting paid again and the story changes.
i bet you believe armstrong is clean too. ha.
In my opinion what Alberto has figured out is how to get athletes to listen to him, his coaches, and training advise. This may seem so simple but I believe most elites runners have there own opinions and beliefs and don't really listen to their coaches like they should. At the end of the day if they feel like running hard they do regardless of the coaches advise. On the other hand just watch or listen to Galen, he doesn't even piss without asking or getting approval from Alberto first. I think this is a good thing and why you see so many improvements in his program! It's not rocket science but getting the athlete to actually believe, trust, and do the correct training is the biggest obstacle to overcome to get to the next level...getting the athlete to believe in the program is the hardest part....I believe 90% of the very runners just don't listen or trust anyone besides themselves because got there on their own....anyway....Alberto got his athlete's who realy believe in him, but more important..."it's his way or the highway"...most runners think they always known best, and most don't!...
He started thinking like a lawyer. An unfair advantage is legal until it is found to be illegal.
Do Salazar athletes take Prozac?
Just curious
