ritz, teg, solinsky working out together

OOC testing doesn't matter because you can dilute your blood the day of the test. There was an article posted here a week or two back where Floyd Landis outlined the basic procedure.

Why are you guys so suspicious of Ritz, Teg, and Solinsky but not all the random Africans who show up and break 13? None of these guys are showing the ridiculous improvements we'd typically associate with PED use. They've improved, but fairly steadily and haven't done anything absurd like Ramzi or that Spaniard from indoors did.

eurodonkey wrote:

They certainly do in Europe. Get to a certain level and you have to post notice of all your movements so they can find you any day. They can show up any time at all, and they do. Maybe the USA has some special exemption?

It's the same in the US. Look at the USADA.org links I posted above.

superpeds wrote:

MikeM wrote:

Yeah...well maybe just think of the talent and hard work it takes to run around 8:41 for two miles as a junior (Ritz) and then think of what adding in years of hard work. Then you get someone who can run under 13. If guys like Derek Scott who ran 4:25 in HS can get under 4, then guys like Ritz who ran 4:05.8 and 8:41 can get under 13.

He is not the first US junior to run 8:41. Nor will he be the last. The difference is the other guys did not run 12:56. I guess the other guys were all just lazy.

However most of them didn't break 13:30 as a teenager or get 3rd at the World Cross Jr. Championships did they? Name one.

The only 2 who come remotely close are Derrick and Fernandez and would you really be all that surprised to see those guys breaking 13 in their careers?

so does anyone know when ritz will compete again?

I don't know what is so hard to believe. You could take every one of Pierce, Rowbury, Donohue, Teg, Ritz, Solinski and show how they always had their 2009 performances in them. And you could also show why virtually no americans have been able to do that in the previous 100 years of US track and field. And the Russian women of 2008 failed zero drug tests and where only caught because of treason.

ignorance is running rampant wrote:

fdasfdas has got it right!

Ritz ran 14:10 for 5000 meters his senior year, I was there at Brooklyn (aka the speedway). He had run 14:35 the year before as a junior. He won both national high school cc championships both years.

He's very, very talented. He was not on EPO then, or any other drugs and I personally don't believe he is now, but the immature posters will call me an idiot and that's okay as they hide behind their keyboards.

Decker was running national class times in the 800 as a 14-year old! 14:10 is not even close to national class. But just because Decker was running fast as a teen does not mean all her later marks were clean. Just the same, saying that Ritz, Teg, Solinski are not suspicious because they ran fast(not really) as teens is a week argument.

weak argument

I've seen the needle and the damage done

A little part of it in everyone

But every doper's like a settin sun.

dunce awards blue ribbon wrote:

Thank you, that guy has lost all credibility in first not knowing how the drugs work and second not knowing how the testing system works in the U.S.

Absolutely no credibility, simply libel. Defamatory false allegations are can be taken to court, I'd love to see this coward sued for his weightless allegations.

Be nice to have a Nike lawyer track that IP address and make an example of him.

Don't get me wrong, I don't pretend to know with certainty who is or who is not on drugs, but claiming with some sort of certainty that someone is on drugs and damaging their public with no proof or inside knowledge is simply unacceptable.

Blah, blah, blah. This is still America, buddy, the Kenyan and the Democrats haven't quite killed it yet.

Kay: We're gonna check the hot sheets

[Kay pulls up to a newsstand and buys a pile of supermarket tabloids]

Jay: THESE are the hot sheets?

Kay: Best investigative reporting on the planet. But go ahead, read the New York Times if you want. They get lucky sometimes.

The only support for saying that any of the top American distance runners are doping is that they're running fast. But running fast is just not evidence of doping. They're not running times that are out of line with the natural progression of talented runners with hard and intelligent training, and they're being tested regularly and not turning up positive for PEDs.

It's just Occam's razor. Unless you actually have some reason to accuse somebody, there are simpler explanations for why Ritz, Teg, and Solinsky are running well, which are the factors we already know are there -- natural talent, hard work, and smart training.

Todays Tom Sawyer wrote:

natural talent, hard work, and smart training.

Finally, available in America!

The top Africans are more talented than the top Americans, fact. No American-born runner ever has, or probably ever will run 13:03 in his second race.

For Americans to run with the top Africans, they need to do everything absolutely perfectly in their training and lifestyle. Whereas Bill Rodgers trained hard, and then went home to relax with pizza and beer, Ritz trains equally hard if not harder, supplements on the alterg/cross-trainer/underwater treadmill/adds plyos etc, and monitors every aspect of his diet, rest and recovery slowly. He trains and lives at a knife-edge. This is what is necessary to compete with the more talented Africans - no stone left unturned. It's not surprising that when he is healthy he will run faster than Rodgers.

I'd be interested to see what would happen if the likes of Salazar/Schumacher took on a potential African world-beater in the mould of Bekele/Kipchoge/Ebuya. With the meticulous approach and facilities applied to greater natural talent, would we see a substantial revision of the world records?

For some reason I said "slowly" when I meant "meticulously".

Simple truth is this: you get to a certain level, such as these guys, and you pick and choose your races very carefully. Appearance fees are a huge portion of their livelihood... a poor races equal lower appearance fees... thus, if you race selectively and race well when you do, your stock guys up. Hall does this.. and Paula Radcliff... any of the major marathoners... even the top distance track guys that can demand an appearance fee.

Most of the arguments on these boards completely forget the money side of the equation. These guys are professional athletes, who make choices based on money, like all professionals. Not glorified post-collegiates chasing PRs, but professionals making a living, supporting their families, putting money in the bank... and at the end of the day, chasing PRs too because they help with the aforementioned.

I assume this was aimed towards me, so I will respond with explanation. I never said 14:10 was national class, but for a high school senior it is frickin' amazing!

As I said, I was there. Dathan went flying by the 2 mile point in 8:57 to 8:58 on a certified cross country course. He was NOT on drugs, just an extremely talented hardworking runner who had the ability to run that time based off of what I have already said in my first post.

No, I don't believe that Ritz, Teg, & Solinski should be under any suspicion and I believe you have a weak arguement, actually very weak. Many people have whined repeatedly that the Americans don't have a chance and they are too slow. They work hard and finally make a break through with 3 guys have recently broken 13 and here comes the accusations. Dathan ran 27:30 something in college.....was he on drugs then?

Do you not believe they've improved year after year as they've matured and ran faster in workouts? With that comes faster times, period. Decker running what she did as a 14 year old has NOTHING to do with Dathan's 14:10 which was again, incredible. That should show that great things were in this young man's future. Greg Meyer came nowhere close to that time and he ran 2:09 flat. I would bet anything that Greg was not on drugs, so how did he run 2:09? Hark work people, there's no short cuts.

I ASSURE YOU THIS, DATHAN IS NOT SITTING AROUND TAKING DRUGS BUT IS INSTEAD OUT ON THE ROADS AND/OR TRACK PUTTING DOWN THE HAMMER, SAME FOR RYAN, TEG, SOLINSKY AND LAGAT. WAKE UP AND STOP THE ACCUSSATIONS UNLESS YOU CAN BACK IT UP (WHICH YOU CAN'T).

Here's the problem, you can't make this assurance any more than the other guy can say for sure that they are doping. If they are, and it's a big if, only a very small number of people could say that they are for sure and they wouldn't be talking.

I know all three of these guys, just as acquaintances, and really hope they aren't. But I have no way of saying that they are or aren't any more than you or the next guy.

Ritz's performances are consistent with his high school and college races. Was he on drugs then?

Some cried "DRUGS!" during Webb's great 2007 season. But is it bizarre for a guy who ran 3:53 in perfect, set up conditions in 2001 to run 3:46 in perfect, set up conditions 6 years later? No, it's just cutting about 1 second a year. So if Webb was drugging in 2007, he must have been in high school too...

fdasfdas wrote:

Ritz is obviously talented. All the shit they do in Nike Oregon project and if they were on drugs just to break 2:10? If you need that shit for that level of performance ur doin' it wrong.

lol seriously you have to wonder if they even know what epo is in the villages in africa. who knows though, maybe once they see that you're fast they pull you aside strap you in a chair and load you up!

As someone who sees him train every day...I can assure you this.