Do sprinters do "long runs"?

TFK ROX! wrote:

What does anyone think about a sprinter doing Cross Country?

My friend (100-200m sprinter) did XC and during the same year during the track season he dropped his 100m pr by .6 (12.3->11.7) and his 200m pr by 1.05seconds (25.40-24.35). I think it could have really helped him a lot because he had crappy endurance, he would have a great first 50 then slow down the last 50, but now he looks strong. I guess it will only help some people, but interesting to me.

A few years ago I had several good female sprinters on a cross country team. One of them was actually good enough to be the 5th runner on an undefeated team. She ended up winning the conference's indoor 300m and outdoor 400m championship later that school year. And we had a 4x200 team that set a school, and meet, record at a long-running quality invitational that year. Three of the four runners from that relay were on the cross country team.

Bruny Surin:

http://www.sprintic.com/training/bruny_surin_training/

An Endurance Session is listed at treadmill speed of 30k/hr....so he ain't exactly going very far at that speed.

I don't see any slow aerobic work here either:

http://www.sprintic.com/training/sprinter_training_program/

But it does have one day of "active recovery" which he does in the pool.

The way I see it...a sprinter is demanding A LOT of his legs during training. Why overly fatigue them will a long run? Swimming and other low to no impact cardio may be the best option here.

Alan

Ö wrote:

Wissman also performs 2 10k easy runs in a week, I wonder why you didn´t knew it.. His coach has also said that he is capable of a 35min 10k.

Well I'm not Swedish so it I don't really know much about his training.

EFFECTIVELY no aerobic component.

With due respect, there is a difference between the general populations sampled, and elite athletes.

It is well-known that elite sprinters have extended anaerobic capacity relative to the general population, not to mention that they run faster and are therefore farther down the curve.

That is why they are elite.

When the original poster asked about "sprinters", I assumed that they were referring to those athletes who were already sprinters, not those who were training to be sprinters, or those who wished to develop into sprinters.

O, obviously one needs an aerobic energy component even at rest.

I also said that as a sprinter, aerobic work is a waste of time RELATIVE to doing shorter, more intense stuff.

Sure, sprinters go for a jog now and then, but not to "do aerobic work".

All of this is why 100 training is different from 400 training, and why a 400 guy won't win a 100 race, and vice-versa.

Of course, Bolt and Gay could change all that, but that remains to be seen. Even if they succeed at 400, my prediction is that any such success would come at the expense of their 100 performances.

I understand why you wouldn't accept the word of an anonymous poster on a web message board that sprinters don't do any real aerobic work. Can some elite sprinter or coach willing to identify themselves chime in?

A jog is great aerobic work. And I know that sprinters tend to AVOID slow running, but that´s not the point.

both sides have some solid points here. please remember that the general population of average high school athletes improve by doing almost anything. if they only lift weights, thier sprinting will likely improve over having never lifted weights. if they never did any distance running and started to distance run. More importantly if they go from being a 15 yr old boy to a 16 yr old boy and ate only cheetos, they would likely improve. So remove that population from your argument.

In the 60s and 70s sprinters did a lot of running. in the 90s sprinters did very little running. the popular training of the day goes in cycles.

I am of the belief that there is more of an "aerobic component" that some coaches have thought most recently, however I don't think you need "long runs" to train what you need.

as mentioned before extensive tempo is a great developer of the quality. Clyde Hart has made a living of extensive tempo 4+ days a week and intensive tempo on the other 2.

Also, if you are warmimng up and running reps, your heart rate and respiration are constantly travelling back and forth through aerobic ranges. Recovery is aeroblic training. So with a vigourous warm up and a session of reps that lasts 90 minutes might have 20+ minutes or so of heart rate and respiration in the range it would be in for a 20 minute easy run. So it can also be achieved through the context of good training.

And yes the longer the race, the more appropriate this training is. So the 100/200 specialist needs VERY little.

Lastly when distance runners use the term "strength" they misuse it most of the time. Strength is a quality the measures force. Why would endurance athletes use the term strength when they mean endurance? Running well at the end of a race is not because of strength or what you train in the weight room it is from specific neuromuscular and metabolic endurance. When a 400 runner is "strong" or a miler is "strong" at the end of the race they simply have proper endurance. Strength has nothing to do with it.

Sorry if this is a re-post.

Without judging the merits, the answer to the question originally posed, whether sprinters do long runs, is still NO.

Guys like me who are WELL past their prime are likely to do some longer stuff as the focus shifts from winning races to fitness.

I'll do 5k runs maybe twice a week in addition to sprint stuff at the track.

But guys like me cannot rightly be called "sprinters".

Real sprinters do NOT do long runs unless they are feeling like crap in the off-season, or unless they have too much nervous energy they need to burn off.

As for the 400, in my opinion that distance is more appropriately characterized as a lower middle distance run than as a long sprint.

Sorry, but it's true--real sprinters don't do any mileage.

If you want to see what a real sprint program looks like, this was from Walter Dix' coach when he was in college:

http://www.usatf.org/groups/Coaches/library/2008/Sprints/5%20Sprinting%20with%20Walter%20Dix.pdf

I coach mostly middle distance at a D1 school, but I compete as a pure sprinter, and this is a typical week in season (before tapering)

Mon: 4X6X60

Tue 10X30 starts

Wed: 5X120

Thu: off or extensive tempo or weights

Fri: 6X60

I haven't run longer than 400m at a time for YEARS, but sometimes up to 12X400 in general prep.

Once upon a time when coaches knew less, they did distance running (the San Jose State sprint city guys like Tommie Smith actually got up to 10 miles in the fall). But these days, even mid distance coaches know that excessive slow running damages neuromuscular function and it isn't done any more for sprinting.

Many sprint programs don't even jog warmups now. I've been to meets where I saw the Baylor guys do 16X100 strides in 2 blocks and that was the whole warmup (up and down the football field, with no jogging and no accels/starts either). Other coaches like John Smith also do ZERO distance running for warmups. And those that have 400 runners do 20-30 minute runs 2X/wk (includes both Clyde Hart and Bobby Kersee) do ZERO jogging during the main season. Clyde Hart has people doing 20 min runs and 1 mi cross country warmup/cooldowns during the fall, but all of this is gone by spring. And I've seen the Baylor guys in meets doing exactly what Clyde Hart says in coaching seminars. Aerobic training is more like 15X200 with short rest (which is what Hart does in the fall). John Smith has pure sprinter doing 3X3X200 with diagonal walkback.

300s and 400s now, though, are common, with many programs following what the Jamaicans are doing.

wasn't tommie smith a pretty good sprinter? and the other speed city guys?

For his day, yes. But he wouldn't be competitive with Gay and Bolt now, at least not without improved training.

I could add that Glen Mills (Bolt's coach) got a lot of his program from Bud Winter. But you won't see any long runs. Similarly, Steve Francis (no connection to Charlie), coach of Asafa Powell, Shelly-Annn Fraser and others, mentions on the web that none of his athletes runs for more than 20 minutes ever because he read somewhere that running longer than this damages sprinting potential. 8X300 (in 37 seconds) or 6X450 are a different matter.

Tommis Smith's program can be found here:

http://speedendurance.com/2007/06/20/bud-winter-sprint-program-for-tommie-smith/

Thanks Coach D.

Bumpedy. Any new info on this??

adult onset wrote:

Really? I admit I don't train for sprints, but I assume that most sprinters have *some* aerobic background, even if just from other youth sports...

Also, doesn't aerobic training (pre/off-season) have the benefit of improved capillarization?

Most pure 100m sprinters do no steady state running at all. Some 200-400 types do some in the fall or early winter if they aren't that interested in indoor.

My sprinters improved aerobic system with extensive tempo. Things like 3x10x100m @ 65% of maxV w/ 40sec, 10min or 3x6x150m @ 65% of MaxV w/ 1min, 10min. No more than 3000m total.

Sprintgeezer is right, as usual.

Yes. They are called "three milers"

From Clyde Hart's seminar notes, there are early sessions like 15X200 starting as slow as 35-40 sec. The real distance running is mostly 1-2 miles cross country running as warmup, and this is in the fall only: I've been to meets with the Baylor guys and they don't do any jogging at all--2 sets of 6-8X100m progressively faster strides with a short break between.

For pure sprinters, it is more common to go through a progression of extensive tempo (70-80%), progressing to intensive tempo (80-90%). The IT may remain for an extended period for developing glycolytic capacity, or progress to special endurance earlier. Many people like Carl Lewis never ran anything in training longer than 500-600 meters. Some of the East Germans apparently did some mid distance workouts like 10X400 early in general prep, and I sometimes do 12-15X400 @ assumed 3K pace with 60 sec straight out of Johnny Mac training. That's probably as close as any pure sprinters get to distance running these days. Allyson Felix isn't sure which she hates more: running a mile or 30 minutes on the stairmaster.

Sprinters used to run longer. But then EPO became widely available.

Common sense (and Sarms, HGH, etc) became more widely available. Jogging distance makes no sense for a sprinter. We use more sprint-specific ways of aerobic development these days. The 200 may use up to 25% aerobic energy consumption, but 6 minute miles to run for 20 seconds at 25-30mph is a total disconnect. Leave that for people who can't run sub-22, sub-47, or 10.5.