MO TRAFEH

Toby Flanderson wrote:

Mo Trafeh, Kip Lagat, Meb Keflezeghi are bringing a resurgence to US distance running!

Didn't Mo and Meb essentially grow up in the US? Or at least went to High School here?

Just like Alastair Cragg is not Irish they are not American..

I just don't understand how you can be so proud of guys who are not American.. Even when you hear them talk their English is not even fluent.. One's wonders if their own situations in their native countries were better would they be running for USA...

Bangmod Runner wrote:

Just like Alastair Cragg is not Irish they are not American..

I just don't understand how you can be so proud of guys who are not American.. Even when you hear them talk their English is not even fluent.. One's wonders if their own situations in their native countries were better would they be running for USA...

How are they not American? Mo and Meb have spent a majority of their lives in the US. They are US citizens. What more do you need? They developed as runners in the US. The came to the States BECAUSE the conditions are better here, just like YOUR relatives. An overwhelming amount of Americans have immigrant relatives.

a wrote:

You can put me in the doubters camp. Sub 13:20 and sub 27:30 is getting real quick and are performances that are slightly better than his current times. I mean the course record of the 15k is 30s faster by a guy that couldn't run either of those times (ok he was real close:)). Maybe he does it but maybe he runs a 27:40/13:25

To be fair, Todd Williams ran that 42:22 course record and American Record for 15K at the River Run, but it was a different course than the current and original course. That year the course was severely altered due to construction of the football stadium for the Jaguars. He won River Run 5 times, but never ran faster than 43:42 on the normal route. In 1996, when Todd went on to his 6th place(?) in the Olympic 10,000m he ran 43:49 at River Run on the normal course. So, you cannot compare Trafeh's 42:53 with Williams' 42:22 really. They were different courses. To tell you how hard that 15K is at River Run, look at what he did in NYC this past weekend - his 15K split was faster in a hlaf marathon than his winning time the week before.

In other words, to compare apples to apples, Trafeh ran significantly faster than Todd Williams ever did on the same course, and ran a seriously fast half-marathon too. There is no reason to think that he couldn't run faster than Willaims at 10,000m on the track.

Stolen Bikes Ride Faster wrote:

An overwhelming amount of Americans have immigrant relatives.

If you're not 100% Native American, the ALL Americans have immigrant relatives.

What the racists above mean when they say these guys are not American is "they're not white European decendants like me."

Most of my relatives who do indeed live in the states for years have green cards but still kept their native nationality... But this new resergance in American distance in the past few years with the exception of Hall and Ritz is based around immigrants Abdi,Meb etc same way the brits shouldnt claim Mo Farrh as their own..

Bangmod Runner wrote:

Most of my relatives who do indeed live in the states for years have green cards but still kept their native nationality... But this new resergance in American distance in the past few years with the exception of Hall and Ritz is based around immigrants Abdi,Meb etc same way the brits shouldnt claim Mo Farrh as their own..

F that noise! These guys are just as American as me and I'm proud to have them represent OUR country.

i know stalkers when i see the wrote:

based on the quote on the front page, he seems like a real creeper/stalker. just saying.

Really. Who is he stalking? Just because he likes to train alone he is now "creepy"? Typical senseless drivel from those who like to categorize people as evil whom they don't even know, or don't subscribe to their limited view on things. How does someone "seem" like a stalker anyway? Either they are or they aren't. Either you know that they are doing such an activity or you are just casting aspersions.

I rather like his attitude that I'll do it on my own - better than the sycophantic crap that too often is espoused on here, that adults (which he is) can't do anything on their own. Adult athletes don't need coaches, or even training groups, they simply aren't as necessary as so many believe - in an age of media information all the required knowledge is out there for anyone with even half a brain, and the willingless to train. It also takes the individual out of the blame game that also pervades throughout this sport, that it must the the fault of my coach or my training group isn't good enough as reasons for lack of developmnent. At least he is taking responsibility for himself - a rare trait these days it seems.

To assume that someone who doesn't fit this profile (being in a "name" group and/or with a "name" coach)) must somehow be on PED's,be a stalker or anything but fitting in with the supposed "norm" is precisely the mindset that is pervasive in America today - childish and shallow, and for whom innuendo passes for truth.

With regard to the American/Not American debate... what I have asked the "Not American" camp many times, but NEVER got an answer to, is the following:

Are Meb's kids American? He married a woman who is 100% Eritrean, and he is 100% Eritrean, so if his kids make an Olympic Team and beak US records, will you consider them American? Keep in mind, they were born and raised in the US, but 100% Eritrean.

I suspect the whole "American" vs. "Not American" debate has little to do with whether Meb, Abdi, Lagat, Mo, etc are American. It has to do with their heritage. The same people will probably mistakenly say that Meb's kids are not American when what they really want to convey is that they are of African descent, and therefore hold some sort of unfair advantage versus those of European descent (which they're mistakenly calling American). So why don't you people just say that instead of this Not American rubbish?

No telling why Bangmod Runner wrote:

Just like Alastair Cragg is not Irish they are not American..

I just don't understand how you can be so proud of guys who are not American.. Even when you hear them talk their English is not even fluent.. One's wonders if their own situations in their native countries were better would they be running for USA...

Whitey doesn't like giving up his cultural advantage in the USA. Seems to me that the haters want to deny guys like Trafeh, Meb, Abdi, Lagat based on the mere fact that they weren't born inside US borders. You don't control where you're born, but you can control where you wind up and what you do when you get there. They want to be here and by merit of that are contributing more to raising the expectations for US distance runners, both those born here and those not, than almost all of the US distance runners who were born here. I'll take those guys over every do-nothing, self-loathing, ignorant hater, but then I'm not a bigot so my motivation isn't the same as that of the haters.

Stolen Bikes Ride Faster wrote:

Didn't Mo and Meb essentially grow up in the US? Or at least went to High School here?

And you are asking this why?

Toby Flanderson wrote:

Stolen Bikes Ride Faster wrote:

Didn't Mo and Meb essentially grow up in the US? Or at least went to High School here?

And you are asking this why?

My point being is that they came up through the US development system. Basically have the same running development experience that guys like Ritz have

my family and I recently moved to jamaica and i was told that there may be some loopholes to get citizenship prior to 2012 if i would like to represent them in the steeplechase. i'm getting old but I may be able to get back into sub 9 shape. i think i'm going to rock the jamaican colors with pride! first jamaican distance rep & first white jamaican rep!

If Mo ran a 59:01 in 2009 for a 20k, and runs a 56 in 2010, doesn't that raise some serious eyebrows?

C'mon!!

Hate to break it to you but you still have to hit the Oly B standard, which is a far cry from "sub 9 shape".

The Stache wrote:

So what are the best American times in your book?

For 10000m, the 28:24.1 run by Billy Mills in Tokyo?

I was at a talk by Joe Vigil where he nearly in the same breath said that shooting for group records (american records, college records, etc.) was dumb and selling oneself short, but that he was very proud of Brandon Leslie who he had coached to the native american 10000 record (28:10, maybe?).

Vigil being proud of that achievement doesn't mean that it was as high as B. Leslie was shooting.

I hire wrote:

If Mo ran a 59:01 in 2009 for a 20k, and runs a 56 in 2010, doesn't that raise some serious eyebrows?

C'mon!!

HERE WE GO, FINALLY

this is what this post was originally intended for, to see if TRAFEH is raising any eyebrows. i mean going from 13:30 to 13:15 is solid improvement but still a very capable progression. however, 13:50 to 13:15 (he hasn't run this 5k time but 1 hr 40 is certainly at this level) in one year is a whole different story. the guy ran 3:43 and 13:50s in 2008 which are both comparable times but might put him as one of the better division I runners in the nations (if that). now the guy is beating the best american distance runners out there. obviously ritz wasn't in this race but the guy smoked everyone else, including Hall. Even this year, Trafeh said he ran a half in morocco and placed third in 1:02:40 + i think .....solid time but was this at altitude or something? how did he go from 1:02:40 to 1:00:40 in a couple of months? bad race? stomach problems? some elites take 10 years to make that kind of progression. he said he had a good race there. did he just have a super spectacular race in NYC?

he says he trained with Khalid K three years ago. why didn't he bust out three years ago then? that would be 2007 so thats why his times in 2008 were probably solid. now 2010....hmmmmm....i dont buy it

*did he say that the moroccan coach offered him to train over there and that he would get a personal doctor to travel with him and take care of him? what does a personal doctor do? hmmmmm.....i want one of those! I need special vitamins. too bad i'm not fast enough.