December's Cal International Offering $1000 For US Olympic Trials Qualifying Times

LI Runner wrote:

Malmo,

Not sure I understand the reference to MW. Is it because NYRR might cater to the already established U.S. elite runners?

That's precisely my point. All the money that NYRRC pissed away on Ritzenhein, who could only muster 2:14 in ideal conditions, would have been better spent on providing incentive/opportunity for an additional 50 athletes.

NYRRC had historically turned their backs on American athletes, and only made a feigned effort at catering to them in recent years.

Now here we have a small marathon in Vermont, offering $750 bonus to those who qualify for the OT. Certainly won't change anyone's life, but will at least pay for most the travel expenses for those athletes who are on the cusp. Makes me want to drive up to Vermont and man the water stations for them.

Joe Connelly should be applauded.

malmo wrote:

David Monti. wrote:[/b

Yes, but the Association of Road Racing Statisticians and USATF did not. The 30% had some decent research behind it, but the 50% was just arbitrary and, supposedly, favored ratification of a record by a Japanese ultra athlete.

I'd be interested in the 'research'?

Here are a couple of articles by Ken Young that discuss the issue. I don't vouch for his analysis in the second article, which (at least on a quick reading) seems like the sort of back-of-the-envelope calculating, based on a host of simplifying assumptions and a few equations from the world of Newtonian mechanics, that passes for serious scholarship in the field of athletics and exercise physiology. (In Young's defense, however, I'm glad that there are people who take the time and make the effort to address the effects of things like elevation drops, tailwinds, and pacing or drafting schemes. There are an awful lot of people who manage to persuade themselves that the only parameter that counts is the distance of the course.)

Avocados Number wrote:

http://www.arrs.net/article_iaaf.phphttp://www.arrs.net/article_wind.php

Thanks. However the first link wasn't a study, it was a meandering manifesto. I'll check out the second link when I have more time to waste.

malmo wrote:

the first link wasn't a study, it was a meandering manifesto

I can't say that I disagree with you about that. I came across that article some time ago, when I looking for something to explain why I had this hazy recollection about a change in the standard from 30% to 50%.

Historically yes, the NYRR has not done a great job in helping our mid-level distance guys. However, more recently, I think they have done better. Last year they hosted the 10000 on the west coast, and road championships along the way. Not to mention sponsorship of clubs and scholarships also. The NYCM has been friendlier to our 'B' level runners too.As a loose analogy, I can see NYRR (and the BAA, Chicago organizers) as the Yankees/Bosox. They got the big money to spend and they do, going after the already established stars-U.S. and foreign. The smaller races are more like the Rays, Twins. Have less to work with, and need to be a little more creative to be successful. There is room for all to co-exist. (After all, all players hope to hit the huge contract with the Yanks/Sox/Phillies, etc). BTW, I am a registered Yankee hater.But the main goal is to grow the pyramid. Bigger base can support more stars.

malmo wrote:

LI Runner wrote:

Malmo,

Not sure I understand the reference to MW. Is it because NYRR might cater to the already established U.S. elite runners?

That's precisely my point. All the money that NYRRC pissed away on Ritzenhein, who could only muster 2:14 in ideal conditions, would have been better spent on providing incentive/opportunity for an additional 50 athletes.

NYRRC had historically turned their backs on American athletes, and only made a feigned effort at catering to them in recent years.

Now here we have a small marathon in Vermont, offering $750 bonus to those who qualify for the OT. Certainly won't change anyone's life, but will at least pay for most the travel expenses for those athletes who are on the cusp. Makes me want to drive up to Vermont and man the water stations for them.

Joe Connelly should be applauded.

Nice to see the Oly Trials Programs and their bonus structure. Elite Racing did the Running Down a Dream Program and brought in about 50 females trying to make one last attempt at qualifying for the Trials at PF Changs a few years back. Hotel rooms paid, great VIP treatment, and a perfect day and course to try it out. I think 9 made it. It was unlike any experience I've ever had. It would be nice to see more and more programs like this. For the cost of one African Athlete airline ticket you can support a host of up and coming runners, plus as an added bonus, a lot more human interest stories about a guy working 50 hours and trying to qualify for the trials, or some mom of three trying to make the trials at age 35, etc. Perhaps they arent your next Team USA runners, but it does bring some needed exposure to distance running and the Oly Trials.

LI Runner wrote:

Historically yes, the NYRR has not done a great job in helping our mid-level distance guys. However, more recently, I think they have done better. Last year they hosted the 10000 on the west coast, and road championships along the way. Not to mention sponsorship of clubs and scholarships also. The NYCM has been friendlier to our 'B' level runners too.

FriendlyER to B level runners, not friendly. B level athletes are merely pawns to be sacrificed for a grander scheme.

Being a non-profit, the NYRRC should be involved in activities to promote of the sport, which the Marathon being the ultimate opportunity to do so. However, the NYRRC is a 'non-profit' only in the same sense that the Bergin Hunt and Fish Club is a non-profit. The reality is, they are no more altruistic than Gordon Gekkko.

Boy, I hate to be the defender of the NYRR (they dropped the 'C' a while ago, and Dave Monti, help me out here!), but the bigger and better the NYCM is, the more money filters down to the other programs, in theory. There was a time in the 90s that the NYCM and BAA did not attract A-list runners and they lost the TV broadcast. They had to bring them back to become relevant. Like I said, I think there is room for both big and little marathon races.Although I had to look up the Bergin H & F club, I got a good chuckle from it. (I come from Queens and should have remembered the name of that club.)

malmo wrote:

LI Runner wrote:

Historically yes, the NYRR has not done a great job in helping our mid-level distance guys. However, more recently, I think they have done better. Last year they hosted the 10000 on the west coast, and road championships along the way. Not to mention sponsorship of clubs and scholarships also. The NYCM has been friendlier to our 'B' level runners too.

FriendlyER to B level runners, not friendly. B level athletes are merely pawns to be sacrificed for a grander scheme.

Being a non-profit, the NYRRC should be involved in activities to promote of the sport, which the Marathon being the ultimate opportunity to do so. However, the NYRRC is a 'non-profit' only in the same sense that the Bergin Hunt and Fish Club is a non-profit. The reality is, they are no more altruistic than Gordon Gekkko.

Yeah looks like a ski slope, just a bit steeper than the Eiger.

Lies, damn lies and marathon course maps

And Elite Racing (now Competitor Group) is known for pissing on national class runners any other time. They did that for a pub grab with the moniker Olympic attached.

If it's not downhill then why not run the course in reverse?

LI Runner wrote:

Boy, I hate to be the defender of the NYRR (they dropped the 'C' a while ago, and Dave Monti, help me out here!), but the bigger and better the NYCM is, the more money filters down to the other programs, in theory.

Just like my great Trickle-Down Economics idea!

Bump-since no one qualified in Chicago.

Does anyone have CIM race director Priscilla Bayley's phone number? I have tried emailing her and haven't heard a response yet; I tried to run Philly this weekend but was super sick so had to drop out, need one last stab at the OTQ.

Just keep emailing her and hopefully she'll get back to you. Good luck!

The CIM website lists an office phone number:

CIM OFFICE:

Phone: 916-983-4622

Fax: 916-983-4624

The CIM, 120 Ponderosa Ct., Folsom, CA 95630

http://www.runcim.org/page/show/226367-contact

malmo wrote:

road rashed wrote:

Flatulus was talking about the Average person trying to qualify for Boston not entering CIM anymore as Boston closed this year before CIM was run. Maybe the extra Oly Trial Q will stir up some excitement

If your goal is a qualifying standard for Boston, you don't have a realistic chance at the CIM $1000 bonus do you? The people trying for OT standards and Boston standards are from two entirely different zipcodes.

Duh! I he was talking about people that try to qualify for April's Boston by running the CIM in December.