Nemesis wrote:
So a private coach told one of my athletes yesterday (a 4:25 miler as a freshman) that I am ruining his speed by having him run cross country. My first thought was, “have you not heard of the greatest distance runners of our time?”
But then I thought about it… Legat did cross, but then when he stopped he got faster. Any legit argument to this claim or is the guy just a moron?
Nemesis
Somebody should have told Coe and Ovett.
he sayed what wrote:
Pure XC does kill speed. There is no doubt about that. But if you have the right mix you can maintain and then come track season move away from the mileage.
There is a reason there are no sub 45 second guys who have also run sub 13:30
Sub 45 second guys seldom try anything longer than 400m. Why?
1. They're having success at 400m, and
2. to move up, their training would of necessity become much more complex to say the least.
They would have to develop aerobic capacities that they can largely ignore if they don't move up.
Kerron Clement did cross country in HS. In fact he was the number 1 runner on his HS XC team and typically ran low 17s for 5k. He did not have the genetic makeup to run 13:30 but he did the cross country training in the fall and it never killed his speed.
It's the same reason Clyde Hart produces the best 400 runners. He trains endurance in the fall and never over-emphasizes the speed component. He finds the perfect balance and he realizes the importance of the aerobic component in 400 meter running.
The aerobic training takes on even more importance for the 4:20 high school miler. It sounds like some idiot club coach wants a great athlete on his team so he can take credit for his success.
BigTex wrote:
Kerron Clement did cross country in HS. In fact he was the number 1 runner on his HS XC team and typically ran low 17s for 5k. He did not have the genetic makeup to run 13:30 but he did the cross country training in the fall and it never killed his speed.
How do you know if he has the genetic makeup? no one knows if they have the genetic makeup. this genetics & talent idea is just a sink for excuses and things that we cannot account for. That wouldnt be so bad if it didnt engender a helpless, losing mentality among those that arent "genetically-gifted". My opinion is that the majority of people don't give themselves a legitimate chance to be great. Things get in the way like ego, exercising too hard, nutrition & health, social life, and mental toughness.
That was pretty funny, I don't think I've ever seen Renato call someone out like that. He deserved it though, talking trash about an athlete Renato coached when he knew nothing about the situation.
Anyway, anyone who says the cross country kills speed has very little to no idea what they are talking about. All you need to do is look at Bekele, the guy is the greatest cross country runner ever, and to my knowledge has only ever been out kicked twice in major championships. Both of these were by two of histories greatest milers. Now, running purely base miles may hurt pure 100, 200, or maybe 400 speed, but as Renato pointed out it's not what you're doing that is causing the problem so much as what you're not doing. Or, it's not the miles that kill the speed, it's the lack of speed work.
Using the example of the op's situation, if you run 4:25 for the mile as a freshman, you've probably got pretty good natural speed anyway. A good cross country season in which he ups his previous mileage levels, does the good cross country work, and still touches on speed will pay great dividends in the spring. In my experience it does not take much focus on speed during cross country or base work to keep or improve your speed. A once a week hill session like Renato suggests or for some people strides at 800-1500 pace weekly can do the trick.
I realize I pretty much reiterated what everyone else had already said, but this is a pet peeve of mine and I'm too weak to not comment.
None of the guys listed have sub 45 speed as far as I know. There have been very few 800m guys with legit sub 45 speed(run in a FAT race) that I know of. Everett and Juantorena are the only two I can think of. Now anything sub 47 is still pretty quick.And of course the OP is messed up. If you are talking about 100-400m man, you might have an arguement. A miler is doing the same training as a 5k XC guy with a few tweaks.
todays news wrote:
wellok wrote:EXACTLY. There is really nothing else to say.
Coe. Cruz. Webb. and now Rudisha.
Cram,Ovett and coe all run xc.
RAN,sorry
CoachB wrote:
[quote]Renato Canova wrote:
If xc kills speed, why did her 400 improve?
The main reason of her improve it´s not because xc doesn´t kill speed neither because while she trains xc she maintains her basic speed.
The reason it´s bacause 400m isn´t pure speed. It does some aerobic effort either what is the percent she improve while train xc.
The 400m runner needs to train the strength endurance already if he or she wants to improve.
Don´t you remember what Renato canova says about Ben Johnson. He did improve just a narrow in the 60m run while he did improve quite a lot in the 100m and 200m. It´s not the pure opr basic speed improve but strenght speed endurance improve.