Asics Onitsuka Tiger have no heels. any of you tried them recently?

I land on the midfoot

Ok Johnny O, I have never ever had a leg or foor injury, touch wood, in 16 years of running and racing since the age of 12, the only problem I have had is a trapped sciatic nerve in my back caused by a hiking fall 18 months ago, I have worn neutral lightweight cushioned shoes in all of that time, I have improved my pb's every year bar one, 3 years ago when I had Epstein Barr and missed almost a year. I can run on all surafces at a good level and I am very rarely stiff or sore after races, why should I start wearing flat shoes as you recommend?

Secondly, I have never ever seen an elite athlete training in the minimal shoes you claim are so good, ever. Most of them seem to train in neutral or slightly supportive bog standard training shoes, skylons, structures, 2080, supernovas etc...

for faster pace work its got to be a fairly minimalist shoe such as a racing flat or spikes, I suppose the Skylon is excellant for roadwork although I have never worn them myself they look like the sort of shoe I could use for an 18 mile marathon pace run or a 25-30 mile slower paced run without any problems.

The thing that worries me waz is why do we have to wear shoes that put our heels 25-30mm off the ground? that is a huge unnecessary wedge of foam that causes us to run unnaturally and is much less stable than natural barefoot running. Also the foam shoes last 500-600 miles during which time it is constantly sinking and deforming, and cost loads of money. A rubber soled shoe can last four times as long without deforming.

Don't you ever feel you are being conned when you buy foam shoes waz? I always do.

As long as I am injury free, my shoes comfortable I don't care, if its not broken don't fix it, I do sessions in a pair of mesh nike vent plus racers which I picked up in a shoe shop for £20, they are very thin and have little difference front to back. Anything below 64 pace i will wear spikes.

On the trainer front they last me about 400-500 miles and I can pick them up for £40, not a bad trade off I think. I never wear a shoe with any support features, I don't think they work and only inhibit the bodies ability to move forward. Best shoe I ever had was the Nike Niobe a light eva sheet racer, way way better than those crappy mayflys, racing shoes ahve to be fairly firm in my book.

I think we agree more or less on the fundamentals of shoe design, it's just the planned obsolescence of almost everything we buy that really annoys me.

i just scored a pair of mexico66s. i have done some strides and pickups in them and they already feel better than any of my other flats. my foot just snaps back off the ground in comparison. i can't wait to wear them in my next track 10k.

How much do the Mexico 66s weigh? Right now I'm racing my track 5ks and 10ks in the New Balance RC150, which is very light, and I'm wondering how these compare.

The Mexico 66 is approximately twice the weight of your RC150's, about 11 oz. They feel much lighter than most 11 oz. shoes though, because they are very compact. They pick up their weight by not using high-tech materials. The shoes with high-tech materials that would weight the same 11 oz. would actually feel much heavier because the volume is significantly more and it makes for an awkward and heavy feel to it. If you want to race in a Tiger, try out the Tai-Chi's.

jmw wrote:

The Mexico 66 is approximately twice the weight of your RC150's, about 11 oz. They feel much lighter than most 11 oz. shoes though, because they are very compact. They pick up their weight by not using high-tech materials. The shoes with high-tech materials that would weight the same 11 oz. would actually feel much heavier because the volume is significantly more and it makes for an awkward and heavy feel to it. If you want to race in a Tiger, try out the Tai-Chi's.

I have the Tai Chis - not nearly as comfortable as the NB150s though. I do all my miles (80-105mpw) in 150s and they are great - light, comfortable and no support wedges, bubbles, bells or whistles attached!

Will try running in the TaiChis again soon - not used them for a while...

11 ounces?! i assume you are talking about the 2 shoes combined?

my guess would be about 7 or 8 at most. but whatever it is, the shoes have a very light feel to them and i am looking forward to racng in them.

I would also doubt 11 ounces. I run in the Ultimate 81, and one of those is 10 ounces, so there's no way the Mexico 66 would be more.

If anyone is interested in the weight of the Ultimate 81's, here's a close approximation:

left shoe -- 13.5 ounces

right shoe -- 13.8 ounces

The shoes I weighed were size 11 and had all leather uppers. Maybe the ones with leather/mesh upper would be a tad lighter. Each insole was a hefty 2 ounces. I replaced mine with .6 ounce insoles to get the weight down to 12.1 and 12.4 ounces.

my tai chis weigh about 11 ounces, just over 300g each, size 11 UK, 12 US. The insole is foam rubber which is very heavy. If I replace it with an eva foam insole they weigh the same as my racing flats, about 250g.

The leather/mesh uppers weigh 11 ounces each in size 9 out of the box. The insoles, made out of a heavy rubber, weigh an ounce each. If you remove them and replace them with a standard foam insole (from another pair of shoes), the weight drops to 10 ounces.

the midsoles on my tai chis weigh about 2 ounces