Has any distance runner succeeded on the Paleo Diet?

tomtom wrote:

2. basically every meat-eating tribe suffer from massive osteoporosis, i.e. eskimoo - highest fracture rate in the world (don't listen to forum trolls, read studies instead, eskimoo are cripples in their 40's)

The correlation is a little more complicated than just eating meat. Eskimos, for instance, suffer from higher rates of osteoporosis because they are alcoholics.

evil protein wrote:

The correlation is a little more complicated than just eating meat. Eskimos, for instance, suffer from higher rates of osteoporosis because they are alcoholics.

wrong

they are alcoholics now, but not 500 years ago. Archaeologic excavations shows extremely high osteoporosis rate in ancient Eskimoo, and pretty high cancer rate too.

Of course there are possibilities - i.e. they might suffer from vitamin D deficiency, but so far fact remains - tribes at high protein low carbo diet suffer from massive osteoporosis.

your statement wrote:

is no good without time

1:44:10, age 46

Wannamaker Wannabe wrote:

X-Runner wrote:

Runners don't diet.

It's not a diet, it's simply a different way of eating, permanently.

If it's not a diet why is it called a diet?

If it's not a diet why is it called a diet?

One's diet is what they eat. I eat Paleo, therefore I have a Paleo diet.

evil protein wrote:

Eskimos, for instance, suffer from higher rates of osteoporosis because they are alcoholics.

Alchohol causes osteoporosis?

That is news to me, especially since there is a near 100% correlation between societies with high animal food intakes and high rates of osteoporosis.

J.R. wrote:

Alchohol causes osteoporosis?

yes, indirectly - cirrhosis of the liver cause very fast progression of osteoporosis

[quote]tomtom wrote:

wrong

they are alcoholics now, but not 500 years ago. Archaeologic excavations shows extremely high osteoporosis rate in ancient Eskimoo, and pretty high cancer rate too.

Of course there are possibilities - i.e. they might suffer from vitamin D deficiency,[/q]

Correct - in addition to being prone to alcoholism, the traditional Eskimo diet also produces vitamin D deficiency.

[quote]... but so far fact remains - tribes at high protein low carbo diet suffer from massive osteoporosis.[/q}

That is simply not true. Pre-Columbian skeletons of American Indians whose diets consisted largely of meat show no osteoporosis.

evil protein wrote:

That is simply not true. Pre-Columbian skeletons of American Indians whose diets consisted largely of meat show no osteoporosis.

because your guru Atkins said so? lol...

there is osteoporosis in all skeletons I know about, all these tribes consumed large amount of meat

BUT

in rural China, where no meat and no milk is consumed, osteoporosis nearly does not exist.

tomtom wrote:

evil protein wrote:

That is simply not true. Pre-Columbian skeletons of American Indians whose diets consisted largely of meat show no osteoporosis.

because your guru Atkins said so? lol...

Wow... Atkins? Is that what this is all about? I thought we were discussing the pros and cons of the paleodiet... but OK, whatever misleading label you need to attach to it... :-)

http://www.uiowa.edu/~anthro/paleopathology/drybones/images/6-5.jpg

there is osteoporosis in all skeletons I know about, all these tribes consumed large amount of meat

As a matter of fact, they did not! Whatever diet you are on, it seems to be ruining your reading comprehension. :-)

I clearly said "American Indians whose diets consisted largely of meat". Your link shows incidence of osteoporosis in the Pueblo and Arikara Indians. Which is great, but it just so happens that 80% of the diet of the Pueblos was corn, not meat. And the Arikaras were likewise farming people who raised crops of corn, beans, squash, and sunflower seeds. They were not predominantly meat eaters.

So I repeat - pre-Columbian skeletons of American Indians whose diets consisted largely of meat show no osteoporosis, whereas skeletons of Indians on largely vegetarian diets indicate a high incidence of osteoporosis and other types of bone degeneration.

tomtom wrote:

not touching milk is VERY smart. Remember, osteoporosis exist only in countries, where milk consumption is very high. Sure, it has lots of calcium, but it has lots of protein, too, which damage bones. For example, broccoli got much more calcium per 100 kcal than milk or cheese, much more vitamins and minerals, and does NOT cause bone demineralisation.

try to cut down carbs like popatoes, they have very high glycemic index. Even banana got lower, much lower, and it's vitamin bomb.

back to topic, here is race relation from guy on diet kinda similar to paleo - he is eating only raw, but he excluded eggs and meat:

http://www.30bananasaday.com/profiles/blogs/50-mile-ultra-marathon-race-1

Yeah, except that you'd have to eat an entire stalk of broccoli- that's about .6 pounds- to get 100 calories from broccoli.

I think this discussion of indian diets is ignoring the fact that many were probably vitamin deficient, which would likely lead to osteoporosis.

Dan the Automator wrote:

I think this discussion of indian diets is ignoring the fact that many were probably vitamin deficient, which would likely lead to osteoporosis.

not only vitamin, they were basically starving.

another fact - people who live in one place (i.e. farmers) usually have higher osteoporosis rate than people who spend life running and fighting, for simple reason - exercises make bones stronger.

And where are these skeletons without osteoporosis? As far as I know, there was bone degeneration in every Indian population, and only nations with healthy bones are ones who don't eat milk/meat, such as in rural China.

It's a little off topic, but I think RunningArt is right when most people misunderstand or misrepresent the Paleo and Atkin's Diets. I'm not trying to sell Atkins diet, nor did I ever do it, but would like to explain it a bit better.The common perception is that Atkins is a meat/fat smorgasbord, severely reducing or even completely eliminating carbs. Rather than calling it a high protein or a high fat diet, I think it's more accurate to say "controlled carb" diet.The main premise behind Atkin's Diet is that "unused" carbs turn into stored fat. This single effect is the main reason for the obesity epidemic. (I often express it differently -- burn all the carbs you eat -- something runners have no problem doing). He blamed the invention of the flour mill, and sugar refinary (and Coca-Cola) all at around the beginning of the 1900's.His main recommendations, reduce processed sugar and flour, don't eat preserved foods (i.e. packaged meat is worse than fresh meat), and pay attention to vitamins and nutrients, are far from extreme or controversial.It's clear that many modern foods contain more than our daily requirement of processed sugar and flour, especially when you combine it with a sedentary lifestyle.It may be a simplistic view, but Atkin's portrays carb consumption as the single variable to control weight-gain/loss. You simply need to "tune" carbohydrate consumption until you start losing weight, and then "retune" to maintain your weight. He freely allows meat and fat, because for purposes of weight control, and restoring a balance to diets with excess carbs, these are secondary. And because they are filling, you actually eat less.Just to help put it into perspective, vegans can do the Atkin's diet. You could combine the principles of "vegan" diets, or "Mediterranean" diets with Atkins, without conflict.Looked at another way, if you simply cut out "emtpy" sugary starchy foods, and started regular exercise, and this gets you and keeps you at your desired weight, this would qualify as the Atkin's diet, without ever getting "extreme".

Paleo4Me wrote:

...

I would never do one of the extreme diets like Atkins.

...

Not directed direclty at "evil", but please someone, correct me if I'm wrong. The way I understand them, neither Paleo nor Atkins diets are necessarily "high meat" diets.I thought these diets were defined by what they exclude. When you look at what's left, it's not just meat, or necessarily "consisting largely of meat".

evil protein wrote:

So I repeat - pre-Columbian skeletons of American Indians whose diets consisted largely of meat show no osteoporosis, whereas skeletons of Indians on largely vegetarian diets indicate a high incidence of osteoporosis and other types of bone degeneration.

Most of the responses to this thread are idiotic. The Paleo Diet works wonders if you can get accustomed to it. I've been on it for 7 months due to intestinal issues. The first two months my blood sugar levels were whacked and I could barely complete a 5k much less race it. Within 5 months I had set new PR's on everything from mile to 1/2M. My long runs still exceed 15 miles. Once your body gets used to it, you will never need complex carbs again. BTW, this diet is not low carb. It's the type of carbs you eat. It may be less carbs than the traditional carbo load philosophy but it is NOT a low carb diet. Trust me, your energy will return within weeks and you will likely run faster than ever. But you have to suffer the initiation. And it sucks.

The ultra runners who swear by it are the ones who CrossFit and follow the Pose Method of running.

I only know two ultra running friends who try to eat Paleo.

Other than that, all the ultra running friends I have eat sensibly from a well balanced menu. But a lot of them eat gluten-free foods. That does not mean Paleo, though.

Read "In Defense of Food"... 3 rules, 7 words... real simple. Stop the Nutritionism crap.

I've been on a "paleo"-ish diet for about 18 months. I've read the Cordain books, but have adapted it and do not follow that approach strictly. At this point, I just avoid gluten, other grains, and processed food. I eat very few starchy carbs, although I do eat a fair amount of carbs through fruits and vegetables.

My typical breakfast is 2 poached eggs, bacon, organic yogurt, and fruit (kiwi, grapefruit, etc).

Typical "lunch" consists of several apples, bananas, oranges, a lettuce wrap (usually lunchmeat wrapped in lettuce), carrots, and celery with almond butter.

Snacks are usually nuts, raisins, dried fruit, stuff like that.

Dinner is very simple: some sort of meat dish, a vegetable (such as broccoli, asparagus, or brussels sprouts), a large salad, and a small portion of fruit (such as grapes or strawberries). Dessert is usually a little bit of organic dark chocolate, or maybe almond flour cookies if I'm ambitious.

I do eat some dairy. I do occasionally splurge and eat other stuff, probably once a week or so. I supplement with vit D and fish oil, but that's about it.

I feel very good eating this way, which is why I continue to do it. Since dropping out starchy food and processed food, I have taken my half marathon PR from 1:09:27 to 1:08:12. I have only run one marathon in the past couple years, but it was about 2:23-flat, which is one of my better times. I think the diet has helped my running and overall health, although I certainly cannot prove that (perhaps I would have PR'ed anyway, although I train less now than I used to). But it certainly did not slow me down.

I think paleo is a good diet, although I agree with others that just about any diet that eliminates processed food and and junk food will be good.

rekrunner wrote:The common perception is that Atkins is a meat/fat smorgasbord, severely reducing or even completely eliminating carbs.........Looked at another way, if you simply cut out "emtpy" sugary starchy foods, and started regular exercise, and this gets you and keeps you at your desired weight, this would qualify as the Atkin's diet, without ever getting "extreme".

That is a different Atkins than my wife followed several years ago. It seems to have been modified considerably.