Official 2009 LRC 5000m USA Men's 5k Rankings Thread: Lagat 1, Ritz 2, Tegenkamp 3

Who is more dangerous in a 5k?

Well if the 5k is run in 12:56 then it's Ritz. If it's run in 13:30 then Lagat, but only because then it's a 1500 race not a 5k.

The best 5k runner in the U.S. is the guy who runs 12:56 AND gets 2nd to Bekele. That runner is Ritz.

frasti wrote:

You are a total idiot! "Teg failed at the World Champs" He had an excellent season; finished next to Bekele in the prelims; ran an excellent final (was in 6th, about 3 steps behind the leaders with 150 meters to go), but simply did not have the wheels when he needed them on that evening (I was there and saw his performances in Berlin! I would have to agree that Lagat should be first; toss up between Teg and Ritz next, no problem with giving it to Ritz because of the AR. Since the African dominance at the world level, no American born male athlete has done a whole lot better than Teg (4th in WC '07, made Oly Final, and then another WC final). I assuming that people like you that say that he "failed at the WC" are quite successful at the world level in your profession!!!!!!!!!

You responded seriously to J.R.

You just failed the internet

D2 FAN MAN wrote:

No one is going to remember who the silver medalist was.

Just like nobody remembers who finished second in the Duel in the Sun, or who got the silver at the Sydney Olympic 1500.

what is odd is that letsrun said that no one in their right mind would think that teg wouldn't beat ritz in a five k, after teg ran two seconds slower but in a differently paced race, and then several months later they rank ritz, on the basis of this one race, higher than teg. I would place Ritz ahead of Teg just because Ritz set the AR and Teg broke 13 only after Ritz broke the mental barrier. Lagat's battle with Bekele is beyond anything Ritz or Teg has done and therefore Lagat gets it. But it is not clear that Lagat had the speed this year to run faster than Ritz in a paced race. However, you have to believe that when Lagat ran 3:26, he could have done it easily and similarly when he ran 12:59, closing in 52, but the latter was 3 years ago.

"Well if the 5k is run in 12:56 then it's Ritz. If it's run in 13:30 then Lagat, but only because then it's a 1500 race not a 5k."

ummm. I'm afraid your wrong. Lagat has the ability to run whatever the pace is needed to get the victory. I look at it this way, bekele is a lot less likely to slow down in a 5k race because lagat can outkick him. Now, if we put ritz in lagats place, bekele would practically jog the first 4800m and still beat ritz by four or more seconds. And yet you people think ritz is better at 5k of the two.

"Well if the 5k is run in 12:56 then it's Ritz. If it's run in 13:30 then Lagat, but only because then it's a 1500 race not a 5k."

ummm. I'm afraid your wrong. Lagat has the ability to run whatever the pace is needed to get the victory. I look at it this way, bekele is a lot less likely to slow down in a 5k race because lagat can outkick him. Now, if we put ritz in lagats place, bekele would practically jog the first 4800m and still beat ritz by four or more seconds. And yet you people think ritz is better at 5k of the two.

what happened when ritz and teg raced each other?

What do you think would happen if they raced each other again?

'Watching Ritz run such a fast time was exciting, especially as he passed runner after runner and actually closed the gap on Bekele toward the end, but that's not in the ballpark of being the only guy capable of pushing the best distance runner in the world to his limit at the end of a world championship'

Spot on

antagonistic wrote:

ummm. I'm afraid your wrong. Lagat has the ability to run whatever the pace is needed to get the victory. I look at it this way, bekele is a lot less likely to slow down in a 5k race because lagat can outkick him. Now, if we put ritz in lagats place, bekele would practically jog the first 4800m and still beat ritz by four or more seconds. And yet you people think ritz is better at 5k of the two.

I love it when someone says I'm prove, as that proves I'm right. Here's what happened at the 2008 Olympics Beijing when the pace was faster. Lagat got dropped like a rock, with 3 laps to go. This is why Bekele thought he could win over the last 400, obviously a mistake, the same mistake that he made before with El G. Take a good look at this video, and compare this with Bekele/Ritz in 2009.

Bekele 1st 12:57.82

Lagat 9th 13:26.89

Tegenkamp 13th 13:33.13

Official Results - Men - 5000 Metres Pos Athlete Nat Mark Pts

1 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 12:52.32 20

2 Edwin Cheruiyot Soi KEN 12:55.03 16

3 Dathan Ritzenhein USA 12:56.27 14

4 Vincent Kiprop Chepkok KEN 12:58.17 12

5 Moses Ndiema Kipsiro UGA 12:59.27 10

6 Joseph Ebuya KEN 13:00.22 8

7 Moses Ndiema Masai KEN 13:06.16 6

8 Silas Kipruto KEN 13:09.08 4

9 Leonard Patrick Komon KEN 13:17.43 3

10 Micah Kipkemboi Kogo KEN 13:18.57 3

James Kwalia C'Kurui QAT DNF

Bekana Daba ETH DNF

Mark Kosgey Kiptoo KEN DNF

Thomas Pkemei Longosiwa KEN DNF

Sammy Alex Mutahi KEN DNF

Read more:

Lagat should be number one in the US because of his finish at the WC in which he beat all of the world's best save one. There really should be no disputing this line of thinking....unless you're an idiot.

Ritz over Teg is a tougher choice but I believe Ritz beat guys in his record who beat Teg in the WC. In addition, I believe one or two of them also finished ahead of Teg in his sub 13.

So I guess Edwin Cheruiyot Soi, who beat Ritz in his best and only good 5k race, would be ranked ahead of Lagat if he were American?

J.R. wrote:

I love it when someone says I'm prove, as that proves I'm right. Here's what happened at the 2008 Olympics Beijing when the pace was faster. Lagat got dropped like a rock, with 3 laps to go. This is why Bekele thought he could win over the last 400, obviously a mistake, the same mistake that he made before with El G. Take a good look at this video, and compare this with Bekele/Ritz in 2009.

http://www.ethiotube.net/video/455/Beijing-2008--5K-Men

Bekele 1st 12:57.82

Lagat 9th 13:26.89

Tegenkamp 13th 13:33.13

http://www.letsrun.com/2008/5k0824.php

I didn't know the 2009 rankings were based on 2008 performances. Or that it was logical to bring up performances from years past when an athlete was coming off an injury to add to a discussion about current (healthy) potential. You're so enlightened it blows my mind.

The normal criteria for rankings give top precedence to honors; i.e., showings in championships. The second most important criteria is competitive record. Third most important is times. Track & Field News has on numerous occasions ranked world record setters behind global champions and/or runners who beat them head-to-head often enough.

Using those criteria, there's no question Lagat was the best US 5k runner of 2009. Not the fastest, but the best.

Using other criteria, such as Ritzenhein's 12:56 being a watershed event that was inspirational enough to raise the bar and perhaps usher in a new era for Americans, is somewhat more subjective. A strong case could be made for Tegenkamp ranking ahead of Ritzenhein, but apparently the "awe-inspiring" factor was used in these rankings.

Unless you're going simply use a descending order list to do your rankings, you can't rank Ritzenhein ahead of Lagat unless he had beaten Lagat (or Lagat's global championship conqueror, Bekele) in a race of importance. Not even with an American record. Head-to-head competition in a global championship is the pinnacle of the sport and gets by far the most weight when determining the overall pecking order for the year.

Tanya Skagle wrote:

Track & Field News has on numerous occasions ranked world record setters behind global champions and/or runners who beat them head-to-head often enough.

Most of the people at T&FN don't even run, if any. Probably most of them can't even talk a 5k, so I would hardly call them objective.

What was the time at the world champs 2009? I don't even know. Okay here we go. Heh ---- lagat ranked 1st in U.S. for running 13:17.

I have much more respect for Ritz. He goes for it, and runs his best, every race. Against Bekele he ran 21 seconds faster than Lagat.

"I have much more respect for Ritz. He goes for it, and runs his best, every race. Against Bekele he ran 21 seconds faster than Lagat."

Gosh your an idiot. You do relize those were entirely two different races? Here's the truth since no one has the guts to say it. Ritz as much as I respect him is NOT a threat in a kickers race. He depends on others to die out than gradually makes his move. He doesn't set or dictate the pace at all. Whose to say if bekele just wanted to make the zurich race a slow kickers race? We probably wouldn't have an AR in the 5000m since ritz was just going to go with whatever pace. Here's a question for all of you guys picking ritz over lagat in a 5k. Who is more likely to win a 5k head to head the best out of five races? Answer that? This shouldn't even be debated.

J.R. wrote:

[quote]

Most of the people at T&FN don't even run, if any. Probably most of them can't even talk a 5k, so I would hardly call them objective.

What does running a 5k have to do with compiling a ranking?I guess common sense isn't too much to ask for from you. Most of the people at TFN have been following the sport way longer than most people here and have seen more elite 5ks than you have.

Let's face it everyone that criticizes LR ranking in the mens 5k - until someone in the U.S. beats Lagat in a 5k race, Lagat will be ranked #1. It is really that simple!