Bill Rodgers 1975 log.

Not An Expert wrote:

Was Rogers working at all in '75, or living off race winnings?

In 1975 there weren't enough money races (even under the table) to make a living at it. That quickly changed. By 1978 or 79 road races starting paying enough cash to athletes that it was feasible to become a running bum, especially in New England.

Once the ARRA took a stand against the TAC, opening the concept of TAC Trust funds, things really started to take off. Even so, there was more money to be made by appearance fees and under-the-table prize structures than the TAC knew about. The Trust Funds only amounted to a drop in the bucket compared to what the athletes were getting outside of the TAC purview.

What I take from his log is that what matters most, is getting in the work. How is secondary. BR apparently didn't follow a lot of guidelines that are common today. Short then long, long then long, or long then short, 2 hours rest between 8 hours rest between, easy, or hard - he just ran a lot.

Not arguing against the hows, but they are secondary to just doing it or not. Don't let the details talk you out of lacing up the shoes!

I think it was in Joe Falls' book on the Boston Marathon, but Rodgers said his number one piece of advice was to wear your running shoes and just run whenever you felt like it. In Kenny Moore's article about him for SI, Moore tells of a meeting Rodgers attends and then, once back on the street he just starts running. I don't even think it's a matter of ditching structure or technology or whatever evils of the modern age we might blame; success boils downs to this: Run as much as you can. That's it.

Also remember that there were runners in (roughly) this time frame who had a very structured week. DeCastella was at 2:14 in 1979 and 10th in Moscow and 2:08:18 in 1981 (so about 5 years behind Rodgers in terms of being at the same level) and he ran 135-140 miles a week YEAR-round on the same schedule ... the same daily schedule.

Now, he raced less (for a lot of reasons -- being in Australia isolates you -- and by 1981 the money was better and he was a big deal by then) but his training was VERY rigid and the same every week.

My point is that if you could handle running 130 mpw, some people could not really excel under an approach like Rodgers, some people would flounder under an approach like Clohessy had DeCastella doing, and some people might not tolerate a plan like Shorter's. But they were 2:08, 2:09 and 2:10 marathoners from close to the same era. Same thing with Derek Clayton, his approach would not work for most people.

I have to comment that I doubt Rodgers was running 8:00-pace as someone said. I doubt he ever ran that slow. Maybe Bob Hodge could comment, as he knows best, but BR ran nearly ALL his marathons at 4:56-5:05 pace (2:09-2:13). If he was tired enough that he needed to run 10 miles at 8:00-pace I think he should have been resting.

My hunch is that "OK" pace actually meant faster than we would guess. He was consistently in 28:30/2:10 shape on the roads and had a couple of 28:05s on the track. Compared to the 34:00/2:36 road racer, that is 1:00 per mile faster in races.

Hodgie-san wrote:

[quote]

The main point of the day to day logs is showing ultimately, self reliance. If you want to excel you have to have it.

If you have a great coach wonderful, live at altitude great, drive a BMW, cool, have a beautiful girlfriend who loves the fact that you run twice a day and run races every other weekend and need to be in bed (sleeping) at 9:00 p.m, awesome.

If you don't have all of that, you still have everything you need to succeed, Bill certainly did.

If this isn't quote of the day material, I don't know what is...

Clayton was more like 5:00 to 5:30 if the training accounts are to be believed but yeah if you can race 10k in 28 min or so, 6min pace isn't super fast.

malmo wrote:

MarathonMind wrote:

Yeah, we don't know for sure, but BR's easy pace was probably in the 6 to 7 minute range. Whereas Derek Clayton was doing the same type of mileage but hammering away at 5:30-6:00 ALL the time. Hence, Clayton's many injuries and relatively short career, whereas BR logged in a ton of wins over a much longer career.

5:30 to 6:00 isn't hammering. It's all relative.

Bill is just so much fun to talk with when he delves back into his training. There wasn't a lot of science to it - just lots of running. When I interviewed him back in August for www.garycohenrunning.com he spent a couple of hours which was fascinating - check it out. I've talked with Bill in person and on the phone dozens of times and he basically just ran 120 - 130 miles a week for five or six years and raced a bunch. His longest run was hilarious - one day he dropped his car off to get fixed and it was 34 miles from his home so he decided to be like Kenny Moore and do a 30+ miler. After about 30 miles he got bored with how long it was taking to do the run and hitchhiked home. Forgetting his racing shoes at the World Cross Country Championships and finishing third in the world in a pair he borrowed from Gary Tuttle is another great tale. Bill is awesome because he's Bill. When God made Bill Rodgers he broke the mold - too bad!

thanks.....nothing comes easy

Bill had what they call "The Rage to Master"

The only time Bill ran 8 minute pace was warming down after a race or workout.

Pace was generally around 7 minutes but get him excited about another competitor or talking politics of AAU/USATF and watch out, all of a sudden you are flying down the road.

So much of the preparation and competing is an emotional thing, it just cannot be reduced to numbers.

I hope the logs and commentary will motivate and inspire folk's and that's IT.

Funny byproduct of this thread is that Hodgie's claim to fame is now as "LRC fan."

[quote]LRC home page wrote:

Bill Rodgers' 1975 Log (awesome site run by LRC fan)

[quote]

Thanks for posting the info and this link, man.

leehamster wrote:

Funny byproduct of this thread is that Hodgie's claim to fame is now as "LRC fan."

[quote]LRC home page wrote:

Bill Rodgers' 1975 Log (awesome site run by LRC fan)

[quote]

Got a chuckle out of that myself.

Thanks for posting the info and this link, man.

Thanks for appreciating it. My webmaster Gary Wallace, a 2:18 marathon runner back in the day with Greater Boston TC has done alot of the grunt work transcribing. Of course all praise to BR for sharing.

Cpt Ahab wrote:

jack343 wrote:

I love this stuff. None of this worrying about VO2 maxes and whatnot, just run baby. Look on the part where he mentions the world XC race, it says "12k (?)" under the mileage section...as if he wasn't even concerned with exactly how far he was RACING. Just went out there and ran his ass off. That is awesome.

YES! OMG how did he run w/o knowing his VDOT or w/o getting his blood lactate measured every 10 mins.??? Does he mention whether he obessed over his tempo pace? Did he run all those miles w/o an iPod?? Sports beans? Gu? Nike Shox shoes?

Perhaps it's simply that times were different back then. Were Bill in his racing prime today he might very well utilize all of these technologies.

[quote]Hodgie-san wrote:

Pace was generally around 7 minutes but get him excited about another competitor or talking politics of AAU/USATF and watch out, all of a sudden you are flying down the road.

So much of the preparation and competing is an emotional thing, it just cannot be reduced to numbers.

This is true. In many runs the topic of conversation determined the pace. Pftiz and I used to run behind Billy and Greg and say things to get them arguing with each other. It passed the time nicely.

It was much harder to Hodgie riled up.

Tom

Some things we can learn from Bill Rodgers' diary-

1. Consistent high year round mileage (120-140)

2. Long Run (20-30) every week or two

3. Train through most races

Cooksferry King wrote:

Perhaps it's simply that times were different back then. Were Bill in his racing prime today he might very well utilize all of these technologies.

Those aren't 'technologies', those are superstitious gimmicks.

miles upone miles wrote:

Not An Expert wrote:

Was Rogers working at all in '75, or living off race winnings?

working as a teacher I think-one day it says "no teaching today!" and another he mentions it snowing a lot and not having a snow day.

BR was working as an orderly at one of the Boston hospitals, I think it was Brigham and Women's, doing "alternative service" as a conscientious objector to military service in the mid 70s. When that ended he worked as a teacher at the Fernald State School in Waltham.

Derderian wrote:

This is true. In many runs the topic of conversation determined the pace. Pftiz and I used to run behind Billy and Greg and say things to get them arguing with each other. It passed the time nicely.

It was much harder to Hodgie riled up.

Tom

Hey Tommy D, not sure if you or any other GBTC'ers remember one track workout at BC...

Squires provided the plan, repeat miles 4:45. Vinny Fleming ran the first one in 4:25.

Of course we were all over Vincent to run the correct pace. On the next interval Squires was yelling to Vincent and along the back straight he ran up into the stands of the stadium and back down onto the track, caught and passed us and gave us what for.

Squires then took a paper "Burger King" crown and put it on Vincent's head and dubbed him the "workout king" we all had a good laugh and then took turns wearing the crown.

I almost got "riled up" that day.

Is there a website detailing how BR did in HS/College?

How long did he stop running and take up cigarettes?

Can anyone sum up his training prior to '75?