Best Native American Runners

Silly string, Aaron Ramirez was a 1992 Olympian, did alot of training with him back in Albuquerque and never ever in any conversations did Aaron ever remotely imply or refer to Himself as a Native American(Indian).... In fact in answer to all the posters that are including Latino/Hispanics, I would be willing to bet if you polled 100 Latinos/Hispanics most would not claim Native American(Indian), most would personally consider it an insult, unless it benefited them financially, like maybe getting some Casino per capita, or disputed land claim... reference any country in North or South America and Indigenous people are in most cases always at the low end of the totem pole ( so to say ) Socially and economically....

old ndn runna wrote:

Silly string, Aaron Ramirez was a 1992 Olympian, did alot of training with him back in Albuquerque and never ever in any conversations did Aaron ever remotely imply or refer to Himself as a Native American(Indian).... In fact in answer to all the posters that are including Latino/Hispanics, I would be willing to bet if you polled 100 Latinos/Hispanics most would not claim Native American(Indian), most would personally consider it an insult, unless it benefited them financially, like maybe getting some Casino per capita, or disputed land claim... reference any country in North or South America and Indigenous people are in most cases always at the low end of the totem pole ( so to say ) Socially and economically....

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You assume something so therefore it must be true. First off, Aaron Ramirez said he was part Native American in a Runner's World article about him and Shelly Steely. Just because you did not hear it or he did not strike you as native on your runs does not change this fact. Secondly, "I would be willing to bet" is another way of saying "I'm not sure, but my limited personal experience is good enough for me." In some instances, this could be somewhat valid, such as if you say, "I'm willing to bet most black people can trace their roots to Africa." Not so much when you make a specific claim like most Latinos being insulted if called native. You simply don't know, do you? I don't care whether you've polled one or twenty latinos.

The bottom line is that nobody asked how the term "native American" is used in Mexico, or what the social status of people considered native is. Rather, someone simply asked whether Mexicans should be considered Native Americans. For the sake of the argument posted on THIS THREAD, and applying the same caveats that make Billy Mills a Native American, then yes, most Mexicans would be considered native.

So I am supposed to believe your quote from Runners World, when you could not even get the year he was an Olympian right???!!?? As for your generalized statement or comparison about willing to bet that most Black Americans can trace their roots back to Africa, lets go to lets say Harlem,NY or even better Spanish Harlem just to muddle it up even more and see just how many people can do this, you put your money where your mouth is and I will do the same and I would take yo money..... Silly String long story short I hope Aaron Ramirez really is Native American(Indian).... I just wonder why he never said anything, since he and Maurice Smith(great runner, and was also the Executive director of "Wings" and the Native American Sports Council) were also good friends and training partners, Maurice could have really used Aarons Native American(Indian)ancestry to further both causes if even to motivate up and coming runners... Speaking of Maurice Smith, since he is also half African American, would you be willing to bet if he could trace his roots back to Africa? What i am getting at is that Maurice can easily trace his Native American roots his Mother is Navajo, he is an enrolled member of the Navajo tribe, a direct geneological line with a governemnt paper trail to back it up.... hmmmm it took Alex Hailey (Author of the book "Roots") how long and how many generations to trace his Roots back to Africa?

You are the moron if you think the only possible way someone like Chapa can get black hair and brown skin is through native American blood. You definitely cannot say Chapa has 100% native blood just because of the way he looks, that is just ignorant, you can only be 100% sure if there is a direct lineage, of which Chapa has none.

I am not really arguing the fact that someone like Chapa has indigenous boodlines, I admitted that much in my first post. The point being that Native American is a racial category. Race is a social construct, therefore, whether or not someone is of a certain race depends on how we as a society conceptualize race. In America we certainly do NOT conceptualize someone of Mestizo descent as a Native American. Hell, Americans are so ignorant they probably wouldn't even consider a full blooded Mayan a Native American but just as a Latino. But, also in Mexico itself and the rest of Latin America a Mestizo would certainly NOT be considered Indio/Indigena. In fact, in most of Latin America if you accused a Mestizo of being an Indian you would probably get punched in the face.

As for yourself, I don't know why you are getting so upset. You don't get to ride the Indian train, too bad, most people in your situation wouldn't want to, its not a fun ride to oppressed. You yourself admit that you don't know which "Mayan or Aztec tribe" your blood comes from but you are "damn sure" there is plenty. Well there are a LOT more tribes in Mexico than the Maya or Aztec. And how are you so sure if you can't even trace your blood. For all you know you look the way you do because some Spanish guy had sex with a black woman and then their kid had sex with a Chinese Immigrant whose kid in turn had sex with a Middle Eastern immigrant and then you popped out.

Sam Montoya was half Spanish, half Native, trained with him in the 1980s.

Most Mestizos are mixed First Nation, Spanish/Portugese/Semitic peoples. If their ancestry is from the northern part of Spain/Portugal then there's no Semitic blood since the north was not civilized by the Moors. But Mestizos can have many other ancestries as well. The odds are Chapa has First Nation blood too like myself.

Well back to Best Native American(Indian) runners. I had a teammate at Haskell Indian Jr. College who was a real good runner, Nelson Begay, was a six time Juco All American. In 1984 indoors he finished 3rd in both the 2 mile and 3 mile behind Gidimas Shahanga (Kenya, former D1 from UTEP) and Samson Obwancha(Kenya) both later that year were Olympians for Kenya. Nelson went on to run for a NAIA school in Oklahoma(edmond) and finished 7th at Cross country Nationals.

Sorry to take it off topic again old ndn runna, but this is directed to La Raza:

No one is denying that many people from Latin America have indigenous American ancestry, indeed most people from certain countries (like Mexico) DO. BUT, they are not "Indian" or "Native American." Having a racial identity requires MORE than just having ancestry from a certain place, or all people in the US would be African-American because they all have ancestry traceable to Africa. Obviously that is not the case, we construct racial categories around more than just some marginal amount of ancestry. So, I want to be clear--the best Indian/Native American runners are precisely that, those that identify themselves and are identified by others as Indian/Native American. That doesn't mean a runner from Mexico or Peru or wherever would not qualify, but it does mean that Most from those countries would not, instead they would fall under the rubric of the best Mestizo runners. Mexico has had several great Indian athletes, the one that comes to mind quickest is Francisco Palencia one of their best soccer players. BUT, Palencia recognizes himself as an Indian, distinct from his other countrymen, and they as well recognize his distinctness.

To get back on topic and directed more towards you old ndn runna--it seems most good Indian runners were from the 70s-early80s era that is associated with the "Golden Age" of American track in general. While "American track" in general is entering a new golden age with the likes of Ritz, Teg, Meb, Derrick, Fernandez, etc. there doesn't seem to be a corresponding re-emergence of Indian runners. Why not? What can be done to get the success of Ritz, Teg, et al. to trick into Indian Country?

my personal opinion is that basketball is King and the sport of choice on most if not all reservation communities, even if basketball is not where the talent could be best maximized..... I mean rez ball is very exciting and run and gun for the most part and you usually have a team of rez ballers that range from about 5'8" to 6'2" and skinny as a rail, not many are being recruited to major programs, probably too small.... there are other issues that might be more psychological or social that are hurdles to overcome for Native running talent to prosper and reach higher levels.... I hope that we see a Native American(Indian) reach the highest level in our sport.....

".... I hope that we see a Native American(Indian) reach the highest level in our sport.."

So, Dilloon's #1 Road Ranking is not enough...HELLO!!

oddest? and perhaps one of the faster ones....

Bo Reed. Odd bird.

Don't forget Brandon Leslie as well.

Obviously Billy mills is the best example I can think of. There aren't many truly great Native American runners but from growing up in the southwest I can tell you that many Native Americans have a lot of talent in high school and then find it hard to make the transition to college and beyond. Branden Leslie is a great example of this he had all the talent to be a world class runner but he had a lot of problems (alcoholism, family life etc.) that really held him back.

Who the hell is Dilloon?!!???

TYLER MULDER OTC ELITE

Honest question: Is Tyler Mulder now the fastest 800m runner in Native american history at 1:44.83?

Lewis Tewanima

1912 silver medalist at 10000

He was a teammate of Thorpe's at the Carlisle Indian School.

Thomas Longboat.

If you go partial Native American ancestry then Seneca Lasitter could be considered Native as he has obvious Native ancestry and he was very good collegiate runner but bombed out at the international level.

tyler_runz_800m wrote:

Honest question: Is Tyler Mulder now the fastest 800m runner in Native american history at 1:44.83?

No.