High protein diet SHRINKS brain - Sorry, Alan

Lance, you show how little you really know...

A 50% protein, 30% fat, 20% carb diet has been used by many bodybuilders (most notably Beverly Int. athletes) to achieve contest shape and many will drop carbs even further, while raising fat. Studies have shown a diet at least 30% fat leads to better body fat loss.

Bodyfat and pictures have been done via 7-site skinfold using the same skilled technician (over 1000 tests done over the last 10 years).

You also ignore the hormonal effects of food intake and how that effects fat loss. We've been through this before, go back and read my links. You've failed the course.

I've lost fat and gained muscle following a lower carb and much higher protein diet (300g) a few months ago, calories were around 2000-2500. BUT, I've also gained fat while losing muscle on a higher carb diet a few months ago (3500-4500 calories, 200-300g carb).

If I can drill something into your thick skull it will be that a calorie is not a calorie my friend. I've tried various protocols from low to high carb, etc with myself and my clients. I know what works. Why? Because I've actually done it. I don't just read research and follow it blindly.

Successful experience trumps theoretical research.

My progress...don't laugh..;)

1. Sept '08 running picture/May '09 pics:

http://yfrog.com/07picture014luujx

2. July '09 pics:

http://yfrog.com/17picture026vzrxjx

3. Aug '09 pics:

http://yfrog.com/0zpicture039ljx

4. Sept '09 pics:

http://yfrog.com/13alans022jx

Don't have current pics, but I am as they say "shredded"

Alan

Alan that all sounds great and all but one question...

How does the ability to squat 265 and 225 for sets of 5 help you run the 5k? 10k? Marathon?

You're three feet tall and take pictures of yourself flexing.

I don't run much these days so a fast 5k/10k/marathon is of no concern to me. I've had my time, run my PRs. After years of 100 mile or more weeks, countless races, a nagging hip injury, and no time to run the quantity/quality I would need to stay competitive, I hung up those shoes a year ago.

Give me two weeks and I bet I could still run in the 16s for a 5k.

Lance and others seem to believe that a low carb diet would be a detriment to athletic performance. I've countered that with my own results. No, I'm not running so I guess it's not "specific" to this board, but it still has value.

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

A 50% protein, 30% fat, 20% carb diet has been used by many bodybuilders (most notably Beverly Int. athletes) to achieve contest shape and many will drop carbs even further, while raising fat. Studies have shown a diet at least 30% fat leads to better body fat loss.

That may work for a short period of time, but for sustained living, the fat % should be much higher, the protein lower, and the carbs lower. An excellent blog & article:

Formica Table wrote:

You're three feet tall and take pictures of yourself flexing.

The guy is absolutely cut and he clearly works hard for his results. He posts pics of himself on letsrun after countless attacks, and you choose to comment on his (approximately average) height.

He is clearly (and rightly) self-confident with a well-defined sense of self. I cannot say the same for you.

mango van mango wrote:

That may work for a short period of time, but for sustained living, the fat % should be much higher, the protein lower, and the carbs lower. An excellent blog & article:

http://freetheanimal.com/2008/09/enter-the-groan.html

That blogger is not an (sub-) elite endurance athlete. Do you really think that you should do a workout without any carbs to fuel yourself? If you're already happy with your body composition, I don't think that it makes sense to ignore such a good source of energy.

If you're running twice a day with some core or lifting as well, I assume that a fair number of carbs would come in handy. That said, I'm totally with you on increasing fat intake.

No fruit Alan?

I've heard the fructose in fruit is bad & have been cutting back.

Thanks for your posts.

i have a used calculator for sale. good condition. the 6 and 9 keys are slightly wearing. $5 + shipping.

markeroon wrote:

Do you really think that you should do a workout without any carbs to fuel yourself?

I do, all the time. Dan Duchaine and Lyle McDonald have written extensively on CKDs (Cyclic Ketogenic Diets) and believe that for certain rep ranges it is best, for optimal performance, to perform having recently eaten carbs. And that for optimal anabolic response, it is best to consume some carbs afterwards. This may be true, though personally I don't notice much difference in performance when carbed up vs. when not carbed up--provided I am fat-adapted. Obviously, if a trainee lifts weights 3 days into a meat-only diet after eating a high-carb diet his entire life, his performance will suck ass and he will most likely feel like shit as well.

My main goal, in any case, is not to milk every last drop out of exercise performance while training but to maintain and improve on body comp, performance and health. I personally find it far easier to follow a paleo/primal (whole foods, high fat, low-very low carb, moderate protein) diet all the time than to follow a CKD or other such variation. I also find that deliberate, regular carbohydrate gorging, esp prior to/post exercise f***s with the adaptive response. Incidentally, one of the great benefits, for me, of my diet is vastly reduced DOMS relative to what I experience on a moderate-high carb diet.

Understandable. I think it's great you've competed and succeeded(to your expectations) in running and have now inherited something new and different.

My main point is that yes this is a running board. And telling people who are trying to run 100+ mile weeks to cut down significantly on CARBS is a very dangerous thing. Unfortunately, some people actually take advice on this board. Maybe start posting the kind of exercise that would go along with the diets?

Fruit is fine, and actually recommended, in the morning as the fructose will help restore liver glycogen moreso than glucose. Fructose can only be stored in two ways: liver glycogen or converted into fat. So that is why a lot of fructose is bad. Keep in mind not all fruits are created equal. Some have close to a 50/50 fructose/glucose content, some actually have higher glucose and of course some have higher fructose. Google it.

Eat to fuel your activity. A 10 mile run may burn 1000 calories, and even this may be LESS for an experienced runner who is very fuel effecient. Of this total around 60-70% will be from glycogen...again an experienced fuel effecient runner will actually burn MORE fat % than your average lolly jogger. So we're talking 600-700 calories, 150-175g of glycogen. As I've said...fuel your activity, nothing more nothing less.

Alan

I really don't think there are that many people on this board trying to run 100 miles per week. Now, many of the actual POSTERS may be in that category, but even that's unlikely.

I've been under 150g carb for the majority of the last 12 months with much of that time under 100g, without about a month up to 200-300g. I'm currently under 80g 6 days a week with a one day refeed at 300-500g. My cardio has actually increased over the last couple of months.

When I first started this process I was still running around 15-25 miles a week plus about 25-50 miles of cycling. Now my cardio is pretty much all cycling.

So, this is my current exercise routine:

Monday: 22 total cycling miles, 60min lifting chest/back

Tuesday: 11 total cycling miles, 60min lifting legs squat focus

Wednesday: 21 total cycling miles

Thursday: 11 total cycling miles, 60min lifting chest/back

Friday: 22 total cycling miles, 60min lifting legs deadlift focus

Saturday: 18 total cycling miles, 75min lifting arm/shoulders

Sunday: Off

So...5 hours of hard lifting per week... 6-7 hours of cycling per week...no fatigue or "energy" issues on the low carb diet.

Really....is my energy output that much different than most runners on this board who are likely putting in about an hour of running a day with a couple hard workouts per week?

Alan

Yes because time cycling does not equate to time running. Your energy output is the equivalent of someone running maybe 40 miles a week tops.

Assuming 40 calories per mile cycling.

Assuming 400 calories per hour lifting...

100 x 40 = 4000 calories cycling per week

400 x 5 = 2000 calories lifting per week

6000 calories, equal to about 60 miles a week. I'd like a show of hands the # of posters and lurkers on this board who AVERAGE that for an entire year. Still, I've had single days where I've cycling 34 miles (1360 cal) on top of lifting (400 cal) with no ill effects or "bonk" from the lower carb route. Your body acclimates by becoming extremely effecient at burning fat and relatively high intensities.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k4l6436785p5v354/

Enhanced endurance in trained cyclists during moderate intensity exercise following 2 weeks adaptation to a high fat diet.

"These results would suggest that 2 weeks of adaptation to a high-fat diet would result in an enhanced resistance to fatigue and a significant sparing of endogenous carbohydrate during low to moderate intensity exercise in a relatively glycogen-depleted state and unimpaired performance during high intensity exercise."

Alan

what kind of person posts pictures of themselves in underwear flexing. Alan, you a complete and utter dumbass.

Runningart2004 wrote:

My progress...don't laugh..;)

Too late, that's EXACTLY what I did!

I shouldn't say anything else, but...... here goes.

Wow, I really can't believe you posted those pics, they're pretty silly. I WILL give you credit for "putting yourself out there" , because it will now be even more easy for people to ridicule you than before. And yes, I will even say that you certainly have pretty low body fat it appears. But I am not really that impressed.

A few comments:

1) just because a diet appears to work for you, it doesn't mean it is the IDEAL diet for you, nor certainly not the best diet for most people. if someone is young, a fairly natural athlete, and works out hard for most of their lives, they can be cut and fairly muscular with virtually any combination of macronutrients. Exercise , eating the correct amount of calories, eating your veggies (as you do) and good genes can make up for a lot of sins. If you have the first 3 or 4 of those things, you often can often have a lot of dietary practices that are less than ideal and get away with it. So again, you may be in good shape, but your experiment of one doesn't make your anti-carb crusade valid for the masses and for long term.

2) your "progress pics" are again meaningless (and the differences not that noticeable anyway). You could have flexed harder in the later ones, worked out right before the later ones but not the earlier,etc. It is hardly scientific.

3) I could post pics of myself and I think they would be more impressive than yours (don't worry, I am not going to make the same mistake you did and do that, even though the letsrun crowd would RELISH a pose off between the two of us). Maybe I am lying, but let's say for argument that I am not. If I did post them and I was more ripped, would you then say: ok, a high carb diet is better? No of course not. So why would you expect us to jump on your bandwagon because of a silly pics of you?

So what have you proven?? Only that you have an inflated opinion of your body AND nutrition knowledge, neither of which as outstanding you seem to think they are (though your body seems to be in better shape than your mind. I guess I will give you that).

Sir Lance-alot wrote:

just because a diet appears to work for you, it doesn't mean it is the IDEAL diet for you, nor certainly not the best diet for most people. if someone is young, a fairly natural athlete, and works out hard for most of their lives, they can be cut and fairly muscular with virtually any combination of macronutrients.

True. Often the damage done by excess consumption of carbohydrate does not show up until one is well out of ones 20s.

Jeff Volek is certainly one of the best researchers on the advantages of low-carb dieting and the damage done by the so-called "healthy" low-fat, grain-centered diets..one nice piece:

show of my hand. 60 miles is a recovery week for any average college runner + weights/general strength/core every day