jet wrote:
wellnow, why do YOU think so...?
wellnow wrote:So looking back, why do you think that was?
He enjoyed the workouts, but not the racing. Excitement in the workouts was replaced by anxiety in the races. This is often due to insufficient warm up.
Brad Hudson is a hack. He plateaus his runners and they bail on him. Find a different book.
Master of Disaster wrote:
Brad Hudson is a hack. He plateaus his runners and they bail on him. Find a different book.
A hack? Please explain.....which book would you suggest?
it's offical, wellnow is a hack, insufficient warm-up wow where do you come up with these theories!
how about what is the OP trying to accomplish with this workout, all this I did a workout now tell me what my race time will be is ridiculous, the workouts need a purpose and this one really has none, I am not sure what the OP was trying to accomplish with this workout because there appears to be no thought process to why anyone would do it, not enough rest for V02 max/intervals and too short/too much rest for tempo(lack of a better term) pace stuff, if the OP just wanted a race like effort than would have better off finding a race or maybe doing a 3k time trial at that pace
I for one would really like to see no more of the analyze my workout and tell me what I can run in race posts
runner40 wrote:
it's offical, wellnow is a hack, insufficient warm-up wow where do you come up with these theories!
how about what is the OP trying to accomplish with this workout, all this I did a workout now tell me what my race time will be is ridiculous, the workouts need a purpose and this one really has none, I am not sure what the OP was trying to accomplish with this workout because there appears to be no thought process to why anyone would do it, not enough rest for V02 max/intervals and too short/too much rest for tempo(lack of a better term) pace stuff, if the OP just wanted a race like effort than would have better off finding a race or maybe doing a 3k time trial at that pace
I for one would really like to see no more of the analyze my workout and tell me what I can run in race posts
You´re the one who doesn´t know shit about running training. You´ve become stuck in this physiology thinking. Let me quote a famous LR poster: you train to race fast, not to improve some values in an ex phys lab. The workout is an excellent race specific workout. Have you read "Running with the Buffaloes"? Wetmore has his runners doing fast 800m repeats with short rest (200m). Perhaps Wetmore doesn´t know what he´s doing?
runner40 wrote:
it's offical, wellnow is a hack, insufficient warm-up wow where do you come up with these theories!
how about what is the OP trying to accomplish with this workout, all this I did a workout now tell me what my race time will be is ridiculous, the workouts need a purpose and this one really has none, I am not sure what the OP was trying to accomplish with this workout because there appears to be no thought process to why anyone would do it, not enough rest for V02 max/intervals and too short/too much rest for tempo(lack of a better term) pace stuff, if the OP just wanted a race like effort than would have better off finding a race or maybe doing a 3k time trial at that pace
I for one would really like to see no more of the analyze my workout and tell me what I can run in race posts
If you read my OP carefully you would see I that I indicated I made an error with the recovery time...it was supposed to be 2 mins. The purpose is to develop race specific endurance during the final weeks before my peak race. I didn't want a race like effort, or else I would have done a TT like you said.
Also why are you annoyed that some runners are curious about their fitness level - most of us don't have coaches and/or are not experienced enough to have a clear understanding of what goals to set for upcoming races. If anything, these threads are what this board needs more of - it is a forum for runners to discuss with other runners all things pertaining to training and racing.
pretty sure i explained with the plateaus and bailing athletes. Maybe ya should Google the man. Here's a book:
no BS.
Master of Disaster wrote:
pretty sure i explained with the plateaus and bailing athletes. Maybe ya should Google the man. Here's a book:
http://www.amazon.com/Run-Strong-Kevin-Beck/dp/073605362X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254152063&sr=8-1no BS.
Fair enough, Ill look into the book you suggested.
so when's the race...when do we get to find out what you ran?
self_coached wrote:
runner40 wrote:it's offical, wellnow is a hack, insufficient warm-up wow where do you come up with these theories!
how about what is the OP trying to accomplish with this workout, all this I did a workout now tell me what my race time will be is ridiculous, the workouts need a purpose and this one really has none, I am not sure what the OP was trying to accomplish with this workout because there appears to be no thought process to why anyone would do it, not enough rest for V02 max/intervals and too short/too much rest for tempo(lack of a better term) pace stuff, if the OP just wanted a race like effort than would have better off finding a race or maybe doing a 3k time trial at that pace
I for one would really like to see no more of the analyze my workout and tell me what I can run in race posts
If you read my OP carefully you would see I that I indicated I made an error with the recovery time...it was supposed to be 2 mins. The purpose is to develop race specific endurance during the final weeks before my peak race. I didn't want a race like effort, or else I would have done a TT like you said.
Also why are you annoyed that some runners are curious about their fitness level - most of us don't have coaches and/or are not experienced enough to have a clear understanding of what goals to set for upcoming races. If anything, these threads are what this board needs more of - it is a forum for runners to discuss with other runners all things pertaining to training and racing.
if you curious about fitness level then run a race and determine it by your result, if over time you race times are not improving then you know your training is not working so there would be a need to analyze what is going wrong, ie. not enough mileage, not enough recovery, too fast in workouts, too fast easy runs
if your race times are improving then you know the training is working, race times give you instant feedback on your fitness level
self_coached wrote:
Master of Disaster wrote:pretty sure i explained with the plateaus and bailing athletes. Maybe ya should Google the man. Here's a book:
http://www.amazon.com/Run-Strong-Kevin-Beck/dp/073605362X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254152063&sr=8-1no BS.
Fair enough, Ill look into the book you suggested.
Glad to know you're open-minded. A lot of people are stubborn and stuck in their ways on here. Sorry if I came across as mean but I just hate when people seem to pick a known name and follow that person. Beck's methods are smart, different and have worked for me. He's an accomplished, intelligent guy that doesn't just follow the crowd. I know first hand that Hudson has taken athletes (male and female) with histories of big, unusual improvements in time from other coaches and just kept them level and declined their performance. His big thing is hill repeats for everybody. He also lacks focus on speed work. Very close-minded.
Good question, I used a Garmin 305 to do the 800s. I assume it is fairly accurate?[/quote]
I use fabric softener sheets to measure my runs all the time. Just lay them down end to end; each one is 6" long, so that's ~10,000 per mile.
it depends
runner40 wrote:
it's offical, wellnow is a hack, insufficient warm-up wow where do you come up with these theories!
how about what is the OP trying to accomplish with this workout, all this I did a workout now tell me what my race time will be is ridiculous, the workouts need a purpose and this one really has none, I am not sure what the OP was trying to accomplish with this workout because there appears to be no thought process to why anyone would do it, not enough rest for V02 max/intervals and too short/too much rest for tempo(lack of a better term) pace stuff, if the OP just wanted a race like effort than would have better off finding a race or maybe doing a 3k time trial at that pace
I for one would really like to see no more of the analyze my workout and tell me what I can run in race posts
I was discussing the problem of another runner, not the OP. Even so, you're still being a knowitall. Insufficient warm up is a problem for a lot of runners. Don't give me that "where do you come up with these theories" line, you need to learn more.
wellnow, for the most part you are talking out of ass anyway and your opinions are meaningless
? for you, are you a coach, if so who do you coach and how long have you been a coach, are you a elite or former elite runner?
What makes you the great expert on running? If you don't even understand basic advice, then you are a knowitall who is really ignorant. Do you really think that the best runners just turn up and race without sufficient warm up? You haven't a clue.
I don't claim to be an expert on running and would never argue with someone of Jack Daniels knowledge in the field of training as you did, that just proved your ignorance, just do LetsRun a favor and don't go away mad just go away
and thanks for answering my questions, you are truly not a coach or an elite runner
Here is the predictor session for 5km time.
4 x 1600m with 90 sec recovery, 1600m time being race pace predictor. Its a predictor session rather than a training session
Your 800m training session is not that far off. The best predictor of all is comparing your times when you set a pr compared to where you are now
..and I am a coach - I don't think I'm the best in the world, but I'll give you one bit of advice:
Find another surface other than road to do your fast fast paced work. I was not anywhere near an elite runner - but I do still have a bump on my the bottom of my foot from not knowing this when I was younger
You will get injured unless you are very lucky. At least the track has some give in it. Find a firm grass park or trail with good surface and do your reps there. No fumes either!
Sounds like your training is going well and you are on for a pr. Running is running people have success with all sorts of different systems - if you train hard you will get better
runner40,
I have coached guys ranging from sub 14:00 in the 5k (barely) to sub 2:20 in the marathon (also barely).
I have coached 5 guys sub 2:30 in the marathon and 5 different guys sub 3:50 in the 1500.
All these guys work full time and none of them were very good in college (only 1 D1 NCAA qualifier).
I agree with wellnow to some degree. I have truthfully found that an improper warmup can KILL a race. As a matter of fact, I now have all my athletes, before a 5k, starting 45 minutes before the race, run about 20 minutes easy (7:00-7:30 pace), followed by light stretching, followed by a 600 at tempo pace, followed by more light stretching, followed by strides.
The key there is the 600 and not starting too early.
15 min warmup and stretch, and hour ahead of time, is not enough.
Wellnow is also spot on with his whole thing about getting amped to workout then stressed for the race.
Relating the 2 (proper warmup and the whole stress thing) may be a stretch, but I could see how one would effect the other.
That is not to say you are also not correct. I think 1 min rest, at that pace, was too fast (unless he is somehow in 15:00 shape. Then that would be a nice cruise interval). The workout still served a purpose. It got him working and probably worked him pretty aerobically. Was it optimal given the 1 min rest? No. Did he get a benefit from it? Sure. Is it a decent predictor of being in 16:00-16:20 shape? Probably.
All of these things can be true. You and wellnow can both be right. The world is OK now.
runner40 wrote:
I don't claim to be an expert on running and would never argue with someone of Jack Daniels knowledge in the field of training
I am so glad to meet someone on here who loves jack daniels the way that I do. I especially like his advice that (1) all world class runners run at 180 strides per minute and that therefore (2) everyone should run at the same 180 strides per minute.
Even though I take all his advice I am not a very good runner but I know everything about running anyway because I just blindly do everything that jack daniels says without thinking. In fact if you want to know anything about running, just ask me and I will tell you the answer.