Why Does Oklahoma State and Alabama Recruit Foreigners?

But I LIKE posting drivel!

Having watched the Oregon program for many years, I have to say that it is about the coach. Some here "applaud" a coach he buys championships with foreign runners, at the expense of developing home grown kids. These coaches should not be "applauded" for their laziness, because that same laziness results in a lack of grass roots building of the sport in our country. I watched Bowerman build up little known kids into champions. I then watched Dellinger do much the same, until he got "tired" in his later coaching years. Dellinger took much the same shortcut as is Smith from Oklahoma State and as is the Alabama program. Dellinger began to bring in more and more foreign kids because he didn't have the energy to beat the bushes for unknown local talent and to patiently develop those kids. Eventually, this caught up with Dellinger, and he retired. Now, Vin Lananna has gone back to the Bowerman model. To his credit, he is bringing in young undeveloped American kids, putting in the work, and proving that they can be as good as anyone in the world--without taking the scholarship opportunities away from American kids and giving them to foreigners.

Watched For Awhile wrote:

"Now, Vin Lananna has gone back to the Bowerman model. To his credit, he is bringing in young undeveloped American kids..."

You must be joking. He hasn't dealt with "undeveloped" kids since Dartmouth. Wow. I thought I had read everything on here, then I see that...

You must be joking. He hasn't dealt with "undeveloped" kids since Dartmouth. Wow. I thought I had read everything on here, then I see that...

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And just how "developed" was Andrew Wheating before Vin brought him to Oregon? How about Kenny Klotz, Luke Puskedra, and for that matter, Matt Centrowitz? Certainly different than the Oklahoma State program that has brought in at least eight foreign athletes for the XC season.

how developed was Rupp, whoops my bad Vin wasn't even his coach... thats beside the point both programs are doing well and are both developing phenominal talent. Its great for distance running as a whole to have these programs and to better the sport....

What other college sports have a HUGE participation rate of foreign athletes? You already said no to football. How about baseball? I don't watch college baseball but caught part of the college world series last year and don't remember seeing many foreign athletes. Lacrosse? I don't see that happening. Soccer? Of any sport I would think college soccer would have the most foreigners. What else you got?

Tennis has a huge proportion of foreigners.

There is significant participation of foreigners in swimming, although America is so deep in swimming talent it is not nearly to the level of T&F

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Tennis has a huge proportion of foreigners.

There is significant participation of foreigners in swimming, although America is so deep in swimming talent it is not nearly to the level of T&F

I just can't believe that people on here actually believe that the best thing for USA running is to stop developing runners past the HS level.

To essentialy make the college XC coach a van driver is disgusting.

Since you quoted me I assume you think I hold that position. I am not sure how what I wrote has anything to do with that.

The question is who's job is it to continue developing runners past the HS level? It is not a college coaches job. His job is to win. Developing American high school runners is one strategy towards accomplishing that, a strategy many many coaches follow partial or totally. There are a lot of opportunities for runners to develop. Other coaches employ other strategies.

Everymans Hero wrote:

And just how "developed" was Andrew Wheating before Vin brought him to Oregon? How about Kenny Klotz, Luke Puskedra, and for that matter, Matt Centrowitz? Certainly different than the Oklahoma State program that has brought in at least eight foreign athletes for the XC season.

I'll give you Wheating, but Klotz, Puskedra and Centrowitz were all top ranked high school athletes, so it does nothing to prove your point that Lananna has built a program with undeveloped athletes. Lananna can obviously coach, but I doubt many people would disagree that his biggest asset is his ability to recruit talent.

I'm guessing Smith brings in foreigners for two reasons...

1) It's difficult to recruit top U.S. talent to Stillwater, which isn't exactly a known training mecca. In reality, it's in the middle of nowhere. In all honesty, how many would want to live in Oklahoma if you had other options?

2) Smith probably doesn't want to work with whiney Americans who are afraid to compete against foreigners.

Waaah. Nobody complains when a powerhouse football team recruits out of state or a Final Four basketball team includes a foreign athlete.

Simple sport. Run faster. We should be reducing rules not adding.

Champions Desire wrote:

So, you are saying the "coach wants to win" is the reason. Well if that is the case, I say fire the coach because he is supposed to be working for the state (this means the taxpayers) that is paying his salary. How do you think the taxpayers will feel about this self-serving coach? What % of taxpayers give rip about cross country and this bumpkin coach's desire to win?

You just answered your own question genius. What % of taxpayers give a crap about cross country? And within that what % of taxpayers care how many foreign athletes are on the team? I'd say you're looking at hardly .01% of the taxpayers would care. At best they just want to see their respective state win a national championship.

q&a wrote:

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You just answered your own question genius. What % of taxpayers give a crap about cross country? And within that what % of taxpayers care how many foreign athletes are on the team? I'd say you're looking at hardly .01% of the taxpayers would care. At best they just want to see their respective state win a national championship.

Yes. and the more foreigners that run XC the few american that will care, so when programs get axed nobody will care at all.

Look even the NFL keeps an eye on developing the sport at it's lowest levels. To ignore that role of the colleges is short sighted.

A college coach's job is to win and not break any rules. Developing talent is nice, but it's not a requirement. Pete Carroll isn't known for developing talent, he's known for recruiting great players.

I can't imagine an AD being upset that a college XC coach isn't developing in state talent. That's not his job. A coach in Alabama or Oklahoma that used scholarships on in state kids would be fired quickly. Why do you want to see coaches getting fired?

A coach cannot build a successful program by simply recruiting within the state of Alabama. That's the end of it. It would be career suicide to try to do that.

To the Idiot that started this 2nd tread on the same issue:

The money are NOT going to Eldoret, Kenya. They are GOING BACK into the University, city, state. There is NO REAL WASTE of money...

Hmm how can I explain this to a mentally challenged person as yourself??

Its like your father gives you 3 $ and asks you to buy his home produced lemonade....or better off he just gives you his home made lemonade that he sells, telling you he just "spend" 3 $ on you.

On top of that, having foreigners getting an education here and understanding our culture is better for the American interest. We are selling our values to them , their families and their friends. We are gaining strong relationships and lobbying in the World. Some of these kids go back in Kenya and maybe they ll help build Kenya into a better place, that hopefully one day won`t need 3 billion dollars help a year to survive.(You can actually have a better case bitching and moaning why Americans are donating billions of dollars every year to poor countries or to Istae/ THATS where the TAX money are actually wasted)

In case you are not trolling and hate foreigners as yourself with passion you understand my point.

Everymans Hero wrote:

And just how "developed" was Andrew Wheating before Vin brought him to Oregon? How about Kenny Klotz, Luke Puskedra, and for that matter, Matt Centrowitz? Certainly different than the Oklahoma State program that has brought in at least eight foreign athletes for the XC season.

LOL, Centrowitz went 8:41 or so in the 2 mile. Puskedra was 8:48 or whatever. Klotz, studly in high school, pretty sure he was 8:5ish in the 2 mile. You are an idiot.

As for OK State, they also brought in some pretty damn good American kids as well. The best runners in the world live in Kenya and Ethiopia, a coach wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't try to get a few of them.

Factual wrote:

Alabama is a top 50 public university.

Given that there are only 50 states, (and you've got the entire education system of Mississippi beat by default), this isn't saying much.

Kenyan athletes at the university of Alabama are some of the hardest working people i have ever met.. the primary focus of these athletes is mainly SCHOOL they have been blessed with a running talent and are using it to their advantage.. you have never experienced the things these people have dealt with or heard about it im sure.. how can you blame a coach that is helping change another persons life for the better?? one of the kenyans that ran here actually went on and is now an officer in the U.S. Army defending you, who said he should not be here..

And as being one of the Americans on the team it does not discourage me at all, as a runner, competitor and teammate.. I turned down a full ride and transfered here to run with the kenyans knowing I dont have a chance at a scholarship, but knowing that some of the worlds best distance runners are now here in America so why not run with them and learn from them in order to be the best that I can be..

Kenyans are some of the best runners in the world.. if we cant beat them in college or run faster than them.. how do you expect to develop your running farther anyways..