Recap of Ritz's Tuesday USATF Teleconference

I agree with mighty porn stache.

All Ritz really said (I think) was that he was targeting the marathon for the 2012 Olympics. I think we will see him plenty enough on the track over the next couple of years. Actually in Ritz' post race interview in Berlin he said that Salazar wanted to get him to the point where he was never more than 3 weeks out from going up to the Marathon or all the way down to a 3K or 5K. I thought that was kind of interesting.

What I think is really positive about the group that is forming under Salazar is that they are all high level runners, yet at the same time very diverse. Ritz for example is coming down from the Marathon, while Rupp and Webb are coming up from the direction of speed development. My sense is that will help everyone.

What makes you think Ritz would not be pulled out?

All-time lists are misleading:

2009 list:

12:52.32 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13/06/1982 1 Zürich 28/08/2009

12:55.03 Edwin Cheruiyot Soi KEN 03/03/1986 2 Zürich 28/08/2009

12:56.23 Kenenisa Bekele 1 Roma 10/07/2009

12:56.27 Dathan Ritzenhein USA 30/12/1982 3 Zürich 28/08/2009

3rd BEST PERFORMER OF THE YEAR.

A marathoner with his track creds should be 2:06 at the slowest.

Alan

frogger60 wrote:

WAKE UP THE MARATHON SUCKS!!!

marathon is for elites Africans and fat ladies

What it seems like most posters are not considering is that Ritz is not with Hudson or with Mahon but with Salazar and Salazar's runner tend to race a good amount. Look at Kara as a good example or how Alberto himself raced back in the day.I would expect that under Salazar, Ritz will race 8-10 per year, including a marathon, a few road races and some serious 5k and 10k track efforts. As some have stated, Salazar believes (and rightfully so in my book) that you can focus on fundamental distance training and be able to transition over to a peak at specific event within a relatively quick period of time. This is how he did it, how Shorter did it and what I'd expect from Rupp and Ritz under his coaching.

Jefe in the CO wrote:

The monastic lifestyle of marathoners means that we get to see them race 2 or 3 times a year. It's not enough to imprint on America's running consciousness.

What I'd like to see is some runners who DON'T have "amazing footspeed" run a championship race the only way they have a shot -- by taking it out strong. F*ck a tactical race. It's only tactical (meaning sit and kick) if you allow it to be. Not that I expect Ritzenhein to ever break or seriously challenge the world record in the 5,000, but 12:56 is just 19 seconds away from the world record, and just 7 seconds from sub 12:50 which is VERY rarefied air.

I must admit though that I am VERY interested to see what he'll do a half or a marathon in now that he's seemingly hit a new level, and ultimately I DO believe he's going to be better at the marathon on the world stage, but DAMN 12:56 is smokin' fast.

rojo wrote:

The Olympic marathon is only a 2nd tier event in the same fashion that the 5k and 10k are - in the sense that the extra 10 Kenyans and 5 Ethiopians who could kill every American aren't running as only 3 per event are allowed.

It's a second tier event because the best marathoners (like Geb) often choose not to participate because it takes away one of their big paydays. Geb doesn't need or want medals now. He's a businessman at this phase of his career.

It's not a 2nd tier event. Kenya finally sent it's best available people, and the Ethiopian group was also strong in Beijing. Gharib was there, too, and he's hardly a second tier guy. Gebrselassie, God bless, him is a guy who, at this stage of his career, is after money and fast times and does not want to race anyone.

The best marathoner in the world is Sammy Wanjiru, who happened to win in Beijing...and then again in London.

Geb's afraid of competition in the marathon. What other marathon has he raced against his top peers? I agree that it's a business decision, he stands to lose money if he races against runners he knows are legit threats to win.

Runningart2004 wrote:

A marathoner with his track creds should be 2:06 at the slowest.

Alan

Has he proven to a true "marathoner" yet? Yes, his top 10 in the olympics was great, but we still don't know if that was achieved BECAUSE of his excellent 10k ability and despite his lack of true marathoner strength. Many marathoners don't have Ritz's track creds, but are a lot better at the marathon than Ritz.

Ritz best potential event probably has always been the 10k. However, because this was the event east africans dominated more than any other, and because in a kicker's race Ritz chances for a medal dimmed, he chose to take a shot at the marathon because a) east african stranglehold on the event was not as severe as it was/is on the 10k, and b) it is more of crapshoot in the marathon, with runners blowing up, and c) because of big $ on the road, some top runners don't always run the olympic/wc marathon, and d) a kick at the end is less important.

All of that made Ritz and his coaches assume a medal in the marathon was a better shot. He still seems to think this way. However, a few things have changed: the east african depth in the marathon is improving rapidly. Look at the WC's:

the kenyans didn't send arguably their 4 best marathoners (wanjiru, Lel, Kibet, Kwambai), and still took top 1,2, 5!!

Ethiopia took 3,4(without Geb, and with Merga DNF'ing), so east africa took the top 5 with many of their best not there (so much for the africans not faring well in championship marathons).

And these results don't even include such potential super-studs like Patrick Makau who has run a mind-boggling SEVEN times under 59:35 for the 1/2 marathon! (he debuted in 2:06 recently, disappointing for him).

The marathon is not what it was even 10 years ago. East africans are looking as good there as they do in the 10k. Ritz might need to consider this when thinking about which event he has medal chances in.

Ok I'm being misinterpreted. I've always wanted Ritz to be the first white guy under 27:00 in the 10k. I always thought it was a bit strange how he never really ran the 10k, maybe two good cracks before moving up to the marathon but I guess when you lose to Alan webb at 10k, you have tho rethinkj your future at that event.

I think that alternating track and marathon training keeps runners fresh and excited about things. In that light, I think Ryan Hall should do a year where he focuses on world cross or something instead of just a marathon (Ritz running world half made me think Hall should do it one fall as his goal as well).

But at 5k, Ritz has zero and I'm going to say it here zero chance of medalling. Zero. The guy has a 1500 pr of 3:42.99.

He can run a fairly even 12:56 and pick off fading runners but he can't outkick them in a tactical 5k. I think in a tactical 10k, he is screwed as well.

Is it fun for him to break 27:00? Yesit will be fun to watch once, particularly if it's a race with maybe Rupp or something on US soil.

But record attempts unless on US soil where you are winning are boring. Ritz can go run 26:55 in a race that is won in 26:35 and it won't exactly be exciting to finish half a lap down.

What made Ritz's run in Zurich so exciting was how he mowed the field down.

Rojo's focus on medals seems to be blinding him yet again.I'll ask it again. who is the more revered, remembered, runner, Meb or Kennedy. Olympic medalist, vs super fast 5k runner.If Ritz got a silver in the olympic marathon, it would be great, but he would be a legend if he broke 1250 for 5k, and ran 26.54 for 10kQuit getting caught up in NBC coverage moments of a marathon medal. Real runners will have more appreciation for and remember for decades, the above 5 and 10 k efforts, that break new ground. And i'm one who thinks if he's in sub 27 shape, he has just as much chance at a medal as anyone else with the proper strategy.

Meb. Records are made to be broken, but your medal is yours to keep. You're the one who's myopic.

Red Glare wrote:

Meb. Records are made to be broken, but your medal is yours to keep. You're the one who's myopic.

ok, lets say Meb is more remembered and medals do matter more ( I agree they are). But is the marathon REALLY the easier event to medal in these days for a non-african like Ritz??

Re-read my last post about the incredible depth Kenyans specifically and east africans in general are showing in the marathon these days (It's always been there, but it has been ratcheted up for sure lately). To restate: Kenya kept out their arguably TOP 4 marathoners and their #1 new prospect (Makau, with SEVEN 1/2 marathons at 59:35 & under, and a debut 2:06) at WC's, and still got 1,2, 5. Ethiopia (who went 3,4) also has several young guys becoming forces on the marathon scene.

The east africans seem to like London, and recently (last olympics and this past WC's) have shown interest in the big championship races. So London 2012 might be the greatest marathon field ever assembled. If so, good luck cracking that top 3 Ritz. With an 8:11 and 12:56 under his belt, maybe the 10k will be a better shot for him after all.

Flagpole wrote:

What I'd like to see is some runners who DON'T have "amazing footspeed" run a championship race the only way they have a shot -- by taking it out strong. F*ck a tactical race.

Check your history Flagpole. Todd Williams in the Olympics (forget which one, or may a world champs) tried this in the 10k. Didn't work. It just does not work that way, very seldom does. Plus in the era of Bekele, you can't outrun him, and you can't out kick him.

Yes, there are more equalizing factors in the marathon than there are in the 10,000m and 5000m. Most WC and OG marathons don't go like Berlin did, Berlin was the exception to what's been the rule for a top level championship type marathon.

xxxx wrote:

Check your history Flagpole. Todd Williams in the Olympics (forget which one, or may a world champs) tried this in the 10k. Didn't work. It just does not work that way, very seldom does. Plus in the era of Bekele, you can't outrun him, and you can't out kick him.

You have to have the talent to do it -- not just the desire to. Todd Williams was a GREAT US runner, but he was not as good internationally as Ritz is (fair to say now). AND, suppose Bekele can outkick him...fine...can two others hang with a fast pace AND also out kick him too? Perhaps, but it is CLEAR that he can't jog along and sprint for the finish and hope to medal, so his ONLY course of action is to do what I've suggested (or of course not even try and head to the marathon; but I'd like to see the attempt).

rojo wrote:

But at 5k, Ritz has zero and I'm going to say it here zero chance of medalling. Zero. The guy has a 1500 pr of 3:42.99.

Rojo, while I think ZERO chance is a bit too low, I agree the chances aren't GREAT that he could medal, but let's do remember he's only 19 seconds away from the world record time, and that time is hardly ever approached, so it's not out of the realm of possibility he could medal in the 5,000.

BUT, even if he can't do it, your reason for it (his 1500 PR) is off base. He set that 1500 PR several years ago, and he could certainly break that time now if he made a serious attempt. Also, people were using his 1500 PR as a reason why he'd never break 13 in the 5,000. They were wrong. Someone at this site was right about it though. I forget who that was. Oh wait...now I remember.

Red Glare wrote:

Yes, there are more equalizing factors in the marathon than there are in the 10,000m and 5000m. Most WC and OG marathons don't go like Berlin did, Berlin was the exception to what's been the rule for a top level championship type marathon.

well let's see. In Beijing East Africans took 4 of the top 5, with a north african in 2nd, and Wanjiru was as untouchable as Bekele in the 10k. So is the fact that east africans dominated the olympic and WC marathons the last 2 years anomalies, or the new reality? I say it could be the new reality. Their top level depth has exploded, and like I said, they seem to like to run in London. I think the 2012 Olympic marathon will be the best field ever assembled. I am just saying: don't the let past fool you about what is actually happening today and could likely happen tomorrow.