chrisdiaz16 wrote:
i really don't think the oregon project lets their racing schedules be dictated by paychecks
if ritz wants six-figures, alberto will call up phil and make it happen
I'm not arguing at all for Ritz to give up 6 figures. But somehow, many here are arguing that Ritz can run WC track, road races, have 4 elite marathons to chose from... but that the 12K on grass will ruin everything. If (and probably when) Ritz does run a future world 12K, I assume then that you guys won't follow.
chrisdiaz16 wrote:
i really don't think the oregon project lets their racing schedules be dictated by paychecks
if ritz wants six-figures, alberto will call up phil and make it happen
That's right. Nike and Phil Knight got their billions of dollars by just writing lots of checks.
Honestly, what will get Nike more value on the money they put into Ritz: a win a world cross (I'd like to see the odds on that)
or
All the media associated with him running Boston and finishing well there
I would guess that virtually every American adult has some awareness of the Boston Marathon. Even the Kenyans and Ethiopians who win get name recognition on yahoo and espn.com. An American would garner ten times as much attention.
World Cross, on the other hand, is unknown to the vast majority of people who participate in track and running in the US. A US victory would have a minimal effect on that fact.
How many top marathoners have run WXC in the past decade? Doesn't happen, too much specialization with the African depth in the current era. It's dumb ideas like this that lead to Webb running xc and 5K+ road races when no other top milers are. Americans seem to be under the illusion that they can have it all like people in the ancient past did, during the pre-African era. Hopefully Salazar and Ritz's agent are far more lucid than this bunch.
ttc wrote:
chrisdiaz16 wrote:i really don't think the oregon project lets their racing schedules be dictated by paychecks
if ritz wants six-figures, alberto will call up phil and make it happen
I'm not arguing at all for Ritz to give up 6 figures. But somehow, many here are arguing that Ritz can run WC track, road races, have 4 elite marathons to chose from... but that the 12K on grass will ruin everything. If (and probably when) Ritz does run a future world 12K, I assume then that you guys won't follow.
It's unlikely that a serious buildup to a spring marathon would involve competing at World Cross Country. Tadesse did it and (I believe) he failed to finish in London. Paula is the only one I can think of who pulled it off successfully (2002). But she was way better than all her competitors at the marathon, something Ritz cannot say. And the next year she skipped WXC and ran 2:15.
If Ritz and co. don't plan on a spring marathon, then World Cross Country makes a lot of sense. If, however, they think that a spring marathon fits in with their long term plans, that takes precedent, if only for financial reasons.
It is what it is and it left you speechless, unable to refute it. Scoreboard.
ttc wrote:
hotsauceinmybag wrote:He already has.
Unbelievably dumb post by you. Your every word of it.
Reliant Aries wrote:
It's dumb ideas like this that lead to Webb running xc and 5K+ road races when no other top milers are. Americans seem to be under the illusion that they can have it all like people in the ancient past did, during the pre-African era. Hopefully Salazar and Ritz's agent are far more lucid than this bunch.
Shannon Rowbury? Asbel Kiprop? If it works, it works.
You list two exceptions to the rule. Worked for Webb? Doesn't seem so.
ttc wrote: Twist around reasons or blow smoke that the 4K had a couple runners. But since that 24th, Ritz ran an AR 12:56 in his worst event (that he runs on occasion).
It's obviously NOT his worst event. And it's actually the event he has run the MOST in his career.
Webb has been such a basketcase, I don't think he's a good example for anything.
Plus, I would add that the shift away from road racing and cross country to indoor track is more representative of the availability to make money indoors as opposed to what may be better for training. The money attracts the better athletes and so there's a correlation between top milers running indoors and not running xc and roads. I think it's likely that many would benefit from the longer races, but that isn't where the money is.
Maybe so, but no other middle distance or marathon runner who is consistently seeing top finishes against his top peers tends to run WXC.
on the runs wrote:
Webb has been such a basketcase, I don't think he's a good example for anything.
on the runs wrote:
Plus, I would add that the shift away from road racing and cross country to indoor track is more representative of the availability to make money indoors as opposed to what may be better for training. The money attracts the better athletes and so there's a correlation between top milers running indoors and not running xc and roads. I think it's likely that many would benefit from the longer races, but that isn't where the money is.
I think it's also likely that it would detract from their ability to do their best "where the money is." If the top coaching minds thought it would really help then we'd see more middle distance and marathon runners doing it.
I think if you look at German's US Junior Champ time of 23:20 on that course in Deerland, it puts him up there with just about any US runner. Fernandez is better in XC than on the track.
I think a team with any combination of the following runners will be a great representation of what America can do in Cross Country. I say that we could be a top three team.
Ritz
Abdi
Fam
Meb
Rupp
Fernandez
Webb
Nelson
Torres
Derrick
Mrr82 wrote:
ttc wrote: Don't forget: His XC ability has usually been better than his track abilityI've seen this said a lot, and i don't believe it at all. Ritz won XC nats as a sr....and granted did take 3rd, but was blown away by Bekele (who has been blowing the world away since) and no one else in that jr xc meet,
Fixed. The rest is irrelevant (how can you compare a world XC finish in 2002 to a 5k in 2009?)
Deerland = Derwood, MD?
The Rocket. wrote:
I think if you look at German's US Junior Champ time of 23:20 on that course in Deerland
Thanks for the correction dyestatloser#44.
What's key is that NIKE can make this happen. If Salazar, Shumacher, and Mahon agree then you can field this squad and American can give East Africa a run for their money. We need Hall, Teg, Ski, and Jager to step into the mix as well.
Nike has no desire to see Hall do well in anything. They'd like nothing better than to have some as yet unknown Kenyan with a swoosh on his chest crush and embarass Hall.
Reliant Aries wrote:
on the runs wrote:Plus, I would add that the shift away from road racing and cross country to indoor track is more representative of the availability to make money indoors as opposed to what may be better for training. The money attracts the better athletes and so there's a correlation between top milers running indoors and not running xc and roads. I think it's likely that many would benefit from the longer races, but that isn't where the money is.
I think it's also likely that it would detract from their ability to do their best "where the money is." If the top coaching minds thought it would really help then we'd see more middle distance and marathon runners doing it.
I don't necessarily agree. There's always a balance to be struck between and long and short term financial interests. If a good middle distance runner could pick up $10-15,000 running indoors, as opposed to running cross country for free, the short term financial interests may outweigh potential benefits from longer racing during that period. Obviously, many of the top middle distance runners run indoors and not cross country and run very well in the summer, I would just say that if there was an equal financial incentive to run cross country and roads in the winter, you might see more of them take that route.
Even Bob Kennedy's best was only 12th and he was arguably a better XC runner than Ritz.
Our boy Ritz has had some bad luck with World XC Races/USATF as a pro. He won USATF and even a couple international races in '05 only to go out and die a horrible death at Worlds. He led then imploded at '06 USATF XC.
I don't think XC is good for him. You would think the soft surface would be good for the injury-prone, but the opposite may be true. The feet, knee, hips all have to account for the ever changing running surface. Any time I've been injured, running an XC race only made it hurt more versus racing on the road.
Alan