Zurich 5000m

pert wrote:

I don't see Bekele breaking 13min Friday

He ran 12:50 at the same meeting last year after completing the same championships double. This year Zurich is one day closer to the 5000m final than it was last year, but I think that the pace will be fast enough so that KB doesn't have to worry about someone outkicking him. I expect somewhere between 12:48-12:53. Before he decided (or was pressured?) to run the world 5k he was contemplating a shot at the world record here.

pert wrote:

agreed, but speed not endurance is the missing link, even when he has been working on it. In his fittest condition, someone like Teg can still put 3-4 seconds on him in that last lap. As a result, I still don't see him ever getting under 13:10, but I would be very pleased to be proven wrong.

I say his PR's will be 13:10 and 27:15 when it all said and done. Compare that with Rupp: 13:02, and 27:01. Wake me up in 2017 to see how close I came.

Wow that one was easy, this is why i love these boards you guys make up potential times and then compare them to other potential times you also made up and then come to a conclusion. Its truly awesome.

music is happiness wrote:

Ritz will finish 8th but in a new AR 12:57, and the world will be so awed, Ritz will be awarded the jackpot!!!

man i hope that does happen

Who is Flagpole? I'm from Michigan and ran against Scott Fry who is from Ohio, and then went to Wisconsin (I believe?). My daughter, while in the 5th grade, played 1,000 miles by Vanessa Carlton and nailed it with nothing in front of her but the piano. She's going into 9th grade and I assure you, that unless you did that at that age, or something similar to it in difficulty, she's got you beat. Just as important, she's a runner and she has posted on this board, therefore you're assumption is wrong. She was also placed in the junior high advance english and math classes, while a 6th grader, and then bussed back to elementary school for the rest of the day. So then, she's got you beat on the writing part as well.

I was an above average runner, but the way you sound and talk about Scott, you were one of the best in the country, and I'll readily admit, that I wasn't. So then, who is Flagpole and why the arrogant tone to your post. I mean if most people on this site know who you are, then why the long-winded explanation?

As far as Dathan goes, the one poster is right, no one on this site knows how the race is going to play out and what his time will be. Everyone is guessing regardless of what they base it off of. He could break 13 minutes, or run 13:20, who knows?

KB will never set a WR in the 5000m again. It is to damn good.

I don't know who flagpole is but he's a regular. I don't agree with everything the guy says but I do agree with one of his points which is why we can't call something what it is without being attacked. And I agree with him that there are a certain amount of posters (not readers but posters) who are very insecure, else they wouldn't be attacking that which is plain fact. I was a pretty good runner too, that doesn't make me arrogant, it just is what it is. I wasn't great, there were a lot of runners better than me in the country, but then I was also better than all but that top tier of D1 runners. There is a certain type of experience that comes from this that can't be assumed by people who haven't been there.

While I don't entirely subscribe to the "if you don't have better PR's you can't say anything" idea, I do agree that if you haven't been under the pressure of winning a state championship or collegiate conference championship or even beating x & y runners from z team to make sure your team qualifies for NCAA runners there is an experience that you can't really identify with it. When you are on scholarship and a team and coach looks to you to get it done (or as a pro on contract) than running takes on an entirely different role.

To me that gap in experience was summed up when some people acted like Rupp's conference and NCAA championship feats were like simple workouts for him because of his superior ability. Those people clearly don't understand (and haven't experienced) the pressure and related emotional (and result of emotion on physical) strain that it takes to complete those tasks. Heck I've never been put under near that much pressure but I can certainly respect it because I've tasted it.

I think you have to be pretty comfortable with yourself and have your ego in check in order to be able to respect what others have done, and unfortunately that is something you don't see in a certain number of posters on this forum. I think a lot of readers do have it and just don't bother posting, can't blame them.

I respect any runner who runs for any reason, but those who have never experienced elite level racing acting like it's simply a matter of will or putting pen to paper are actually the ones who seem very arrogant to me.

You people who think Bekele will be tired are out of your minds. He can break 12:50 in his sleep. Do you really think the best runner in the world cannot recover from a 5000 in 6 days??

Underestimators wrote:

...Do you really think the best runner in the world cannot recover from a 5000 in 6 days??

It's not just the WC 5000 final, it's the four GL races leading up to the WC, the WC 10K, the 5K heat and 5K final.

He was quoted on the LR homepage saying that the Ethiopian team wanted him to run the 5K and he felt that if he didn't race the 5k people would say he didn't to chase the GL Jackpot. It's pretty clear he would have preferred not to run the 5k.

And remember, he is coming back from injury and did not have great training at the end of 2008/early 2009.

He's tired, but I still think he will win on Friday. I'm also guessing that the big field of fast Kenyans will push the pace from the gun to try and take advantage of Bekele's tired legs and that the race will be very fast.

Dude, first of all that guy brought that post up from who knows how many years ago when I was in a stage of messing around for fun. I just did it for fun, but I quit doing it when I realized that some people were actually getting mad. I figured when responding in such an arrogant way that everyone would realize I was just kidding, but that proved not to be the case. So the guy who posted that (Carl) likes to bring that up and some other things from time to time to try to stir the pot. Mostly I ignore him, but in this case since you don't know the history, I've responded to you.

To honestly answer some of your questions about me though:

1) I was never a national elite runner; just a decent high school runner (15:48 in CC - 5,000 meters - for example). My only link to Scott Fry (other than we're both from Ohio and graduated the same year from high school and college) is that I won the 1985 Oak Harbor Invitational 3200 when he was DQ'd for jumping the gun.

2) To comment on the piano thing, I do happen to be a gigging musician and have played in blues and rock bands for 20 years (keyboard and guitar and some singing). My best instrument is the keyboard by far. Pretty much I'm a mediocre guitar player and just an ok singer. I started out as a classically trained pianist and was playing very complicated classical pieces and regularly in church by age 9. I considered being a piano performance major in college but decided I wanted it to be my hobby rather than my vocation. As it is, I've played in bands for money for 20 years, have done session work, and could eke out a meager living as a full-time musician if I wanted that life. I don't.

3) As far as writing goes, that has been the core of my vocation for most of my adult life (that and teaching English). I started out as a sports reporter and moved to news and then moved to specific industries, writing for the generic drug industry, the biotech industry and Discover Magazine. I've worked and written as a food critic too. I now consult for manufacturing companies.

So, take the arrogant post from several years ago with a grain of salt brother. It wasn't serious, and I certainly don't think I'm smarter than everyone. The guy (Carl) who posted that was looking to hook someone, and he did that with you; he really though should learn to do it on his own rather than use the writing of someone else. Good idea to REALLY look at a post like that (when someone brings up a past post from who knows when) with a critical eye. You can't be sure of the context or the seriousness of any post like that.

Fair enough. Thanks for taking the time to respond and explain. Yes, that puts a different light on the subject. If you were playing that well in church at that age, you've got my daughter beat for sure. Well done.

Thanks, David

We are talking 4:10 pace for 5k, right? Ritz has run 4:05.5 pace for 2 miles. Not to mention he has a tremendous amount of strength/endurance background. So - why is it totally unreasonable for him to hold 5 secs per mile slower for one more mile?

In some respects, Ritz is stronger physically and mentally than some Kenyans.... like Kemboi and Kogo. Those guys - if things aren't going perfect, they will drop out. Ritz atleast hangs in there and finishes hard.

15:48 for 5k xc is a good time but nothing to cry home about. Many people who post on here have run faster. To put it perspective, the top HS guys are a minute ahead of your time.

AW Fan wrote:

15:48 for 5k xc is a good time but nothing to cry home about. Many people who post on here have run faster. To put it perspective, the top HS guys are a minute ahead of your time.

1) The phrase you want is "nothing to 'write' home about".

2) I never said it was a great time. But, when you consider I ran that time in the fall of 1984, it was pretty good then (Ohio had just been running the 5,000 for 2 years, and most of us were in the midst of "less is more" training which was common for the day. Scott Fry won the Kinney CC Championships (now Footlocker) that year in 14:50, and second place was 15:07. Sorry, but that's just ONE guy (one of the best EVER) who ran 58 seconds faster (not quite a minute, and certainly not lots of them).

But, even though I was better than you tried to let on, I know where I stand. I was a good runner but not great. Still, you break 16:00 minutes in high school even today, and you are EASILY in the top 1% of all high school runners. So, even though my long-ago post was in jest about my greatness as a runner, the fact remains true that as a high school runner I was better than the VAST majority of you. Statistics prove that to be true. Of course maybe only the top 1% of all runners post here. Nah.

Flagpole sir,Any competent student of human psychology will, upon reading the "post-in-question," reasonably conclude that your statements were ostensibly not made "in jest." (In fact they're disturbing, but that is another discussion.)So, on several levels, you're a liar for claiming, "in jest."Next, the student wonders: Why is Flagpole being dishonest? Why is he distorting the truth? What does he have to hide? What is his real intent?

Case in point. The above statement betrays a deeper agenda - it is abnormally detailed and protracted, logically muddled and self-contradictory, arrogant in tone, and patently defensive in nature. And, of course, it was not "in jest."

Flagpole: What is your real agenda at Letsrun? What are you really searching for here?

word from the master

“My shape is very good,” he said. “If the weather remains okay on Friday, I want to try to make a good time in Zürich.”

A “good time” means different things to different people. Bekele has run under 12:50 six times indoors and outdoors, more than anyone else in history. He may try to add another performance to that list, but the odds are good that he’ll give his own season-pacing 12:56.23 from Rome a solid chase. But an assault on his own World record of 12:37.35 may be out of reach for the moment.

“After I changed plans in Berlin and doubled at the World championships, the world record will be difficult to achieve,” he said. “But maybe I’ll try.”

Pointer-outer of hypocrites wrote:

Flagpole sir,

Any competent student of human psychology will, upon reading the "post-in-question," reasonably conclude that your statements were ostensibly not made "in jest." (In fact they're disturbing, but that is another discussion.)

So, on several levels, you're a liar for claiming, "in jest."

Next, the student wonders: Why is Flagpole being dishonest? Why is he distorting the truth? What does he have to hide? What is his real intent?

Flagpole: What is your real agenda at Letsrun? What are you really searching for here?

Brother, you are one of the many who for some reason could not understand that it was all a goof. The original post in question had me talking about how I was smarter than anyone here, and a better writer, and basically a better person. That can NOT be from a serious person. The reason that you believe it to be true is that two of the things (my running and my piano playing ability; though I did lay it on thick there) are actually real things, and so you were drawn in (by design) with those. I was never a GREAT runner (never won a state championship or NCAA All-American or anything like that), but the fact is that the times I did run put me in the top 1% of all high school runners and then post high school, easily within the top 1% of all runners. I long ago stopped posting like that because people were getting mad, and that was not a goal of mine. I thought everyone and their brother would KNOW it was all just a joke (a la Phil Hendrie, my inspiration), but admittedly text on the internet is sometimes hard to decipher with regard to tone.

So, I have no agenda. I love track and field and distance running in general, so I read here between tasks I do for my clients. People on this site talk about all sorts of things from football to finance, and I have a wide range of interests (though not necessarily expertise in all of my interests, though I will say that personal finance is an area in which I am an expert), so I read and post on those things too.

Hope that clears it up for you. If not, there's nothing more I can do for you.

Just like to say, I told you so! OMFG, Ritz proved exactly what I meant. Watch out next summer with Rupp and Webb on board. It'll be AR season at 3K, 5K and 10K and perhaps 1500.

side note, if Teg is in Brussels next week, we know what he's chasing :-)

Too easy for Bekele, finger in the nose. The guy is amazing. He won easily the 5 000m after his two triumph at Berlin.

But I can't believe how Bekele win is overshadowed on that message board by an american finishing third in a good time. You americans are crazy.

Great win for Kenenissa.