Just checked Ken Longs website. He has withdrawn the prize money for time bonuses.
Just checked Ken Longs website. He has withdrawn the prize money for time bonuses.
notrunning wrote:
My first reaction is that a RD has the right to offer whatever prize structure he/she wants.
The fluency in English is an odd requirement, I will admit. How does one determine that (easily anyway)? Do all the runners have to pass a test beforehand? Heck, how many native born Americans would fail a test in English fluency?
Have you written the RD to ask about the requirements?
I suspect that there is no legal issue (I cannot imagine a race director or the sponsor not looking into that).
actually there is a legal issue, a HUGE legal issue involved in this. If the overall intent of the race is to prevent people not fluent in english from racing, it is a violation national origin based discrimination protected under title seven of the civil rights act. this place should be looking well into this issue because they may get sued
Nothing in title 7 (I just read it) says anything about language. A person can be from other countries and speak English quite well. Proving intent is going to be tough. I agree the requirement is a bit silly. Even if a runner is fluent, that person can get confused if the race instructions are poorly written.
Not every Kenyan speaks English either. Just because you have an official language (Kenya has two, English and Swahili) does not mean everyone has to speak one of those languages, just that all government business will be conducted in those languages.
JimG wrote:
Bottom line, companies are not sponsoring races out of the goodness of their hearts or b/c they love/support running, but b/c they get publicity out of it.
Exactly. Which is why people who oppose these race conditions (as I do) should consider writing to St. Francis Hospital to ask why a nonprofit hospital affiliated with the Catholic church is sponsoring an event that appears to be designed with the specific intent of discriminating against athletes from poor African countries.
ukathleticscoach wrote:Great a 15KKK race!
hahaha. I'll give that a POD.
Pico wrote:
Congrats to the RD for having some balls to do it his way. This is not racism. The RD has the right to put whatever requirements he wants on his prize money. This is a free country and if you want to boycott his race, go ahead.
I'm sure the RD will have far greater support from the local community by preventing foreign athletes to show up, win the cash and bring nothing to the race. Most of these foreign runners have learned to say, "thank you...I am happy to win...I will return next year"...as if that adds anything to the event.
Oh I'm sorry I was under the impression that the "race" was to see who was the fastest person who entered the contest. And i must also have been mistaken when i though that the prize money was given to get fast runners to show up to the race and run there by making it a better race. You clearly want a race of fat slow people with great personality's. If you cant see through my sarcasm I'm making the point that what they bring to the race is running fast which is kind of the whole point to running. I've been beat by a lot of Kenyans and been lucky enough to beat some of the slower ones but all of them had great sportsmanship, ran hard and brought a heck of a lot to the race. If you want a race with only Americans I have a news flash they hold several every year they're called the US national championships and they are held on the road, XC course and track you should check them out no Kenyans.
OK, I think the original requirement was a mistake, but let me play the devil's advocate just for the hell of it.
Although the rest of the world is catching up (or has caught up) in basketball, let's suppose it's like in the 60s and 70s, and most of the rest of the world was substantially behind the U.S. If the Italian and Greek and Brazilian and Chinese and Polish teams were stocked with Americans a little short of NBA talent, if 4 or 5 starters were American, some of who spoke a smattering of the language, some fluent, a couple hopeless, would the club team's fans, or the team itself, be justified in saying, "Only two Americans per team. Our fans want our boys playing, not Yankee mercenaries"?
In fact, isn't this the policy of some overseas leagues? Does this make them racist, or simply self-interested?
Lest I be accused of comparing apples and oranges, let me ask it broadly: Don't the sponsors/supporters of an event have a responsibility to shape the event in such a way as to maximize its interest?
This is similar to governemtn banning smoking in restaurants and bars...let the market decide...if you are offended by the wording of the prize money structure, don't run the damn race.
If a restaurant wants to allow it's customers to smoke, let them...if you don't like it, don't go to that establishment.
Additionally, I am tired of people who reside in America and can not speak English...so props to Ken...a man who stands for something, like it or not.
Complete and utter racism. This goes against the spirit of sports.
The irony is that its about "speaking" English and not writing, in which case most "real" Americans would fail to qualify anyway.
How sad that they have to resort to trickery to keep the winnings at home.
Wonder if they have similar requirements in Berlin?
This isn't racism at all. Being a different race doesn't prevent you from learning a specific language.
I can say the KLA has definitely rubbed me the wrong way with this one (I saw the site before he changed/took down the prize standards); I will not be participating in any of his events again (not that I'm in the running to win any of the money).
The Real Point? wrote:
Regardless of any "hissy" fits that might have or might not have been made regarding prize money, I don't think that justifies flat out racism. There is no official language in the United States, therefore why would it matter what language someone speaks? I have friends who are U.S. citizens that have grown up in a Spanish speaking household. If they run the times will he not give them the money? If Ken put a stipulation on prize money for everyone that has pissed him off then no one would be eligible! You would think that after losing race after race because he can't control his temper he would learn that the problem is him and not the rest of the world. No one seems to get pissed off when White American runners go over to England to win money in Track Meets in the summer, but they will jump down an Africans throat for winning some prize money over here! Here is a solution Ken, just don't give out prize money if you have a problem with Africans winning. That is a better solution then being a grumpy old bigot!
Racism? What, only people of a certain race are likely to fail to meet the qualifications? Sounds like YOU are the racist one to me :P
Lizard king, clearly you are one of those illiterate "real" Americans I was talking about.
"US Citizen, with fluent speaking and understanding of the English language"
He is now categorizing US citizens by their ability to speak English.
Are you serious? If this isn't racism, what is it? We know where the winners are usually from.
JimG wrote:
Simple Problem Simple Solution wrote:If having good quotes from the winner is so important for PR, why not just hire a translator?
That may be difficult to impossible for smaller races. I have even seen Major (w/ a capital M) events where they had to get someone out of the audience, or an agent, come up to translate. As a journalist it makes it that much harder to write about the event.
Bottom line, companies are not sponsoring races out of the goodness of their hearts or b/c they love/support running, but b/c they get publicity out of it. If the race winners can't give good quotes, there is less publicity generated, both in print and (especially) on TV. Hence, less reason to renew the sponsorship in the future - they'll throw their $$ behind a golf tournament or something.
New Haven 20k has gotten far more coverage, esp. pre-race, since it went to US championship, thus eliminating B-team Africans from the field. There is much more interaction w/ the American runners, both by the crowds and the other non-elites.
In no way am I saying runners who speak little or no English have no right to run for $ - but if the RD wants publicity, he is entitled to ensure that they winners will be intelligible to the media.
If you want to talk to and write about the Americans, do it regardless if they are the winners. But I suppose the discrimination would be a lot more obvious that way.
Tommy2Nutts wrote:
Are you serious? If this isn't racism, what is it? We know where the winners are usually from.
It's only racism if you believe that certain racial groups are inherently worse at speaking English, which is somewhat racist itself in its implications.
themanontherun wrote:It's only racism if you believe that certain racial groups are inherently worse at speaking English, which is somewhat racist itself in its implications.
Okay already. Everyone understands how clever you are with your literal interpretation of racism. We will be sure to substitute the term "bigoted" in the future.
OK, let's look at it this way.
You have a company (or TV show, or rock band). The key to its success and attracting investors is getting publicity.
You have the choice of hiring an executive/actor/singer who is talented, but doesn't speak English, or one slightly less talented who does. Which one do you want to trot out in front of the media? Remember, publicity is the key to your undertaking's success, more than the overall quality of the product.
Look, you can't even get a job working the counter at McDonald's (at least in these parts) if you can't speak at least a little English. I've been at too many races where the winners can't even say the most basic phrases. Is it any wonder coverage of the sport sucks?
JimG wrote:
I've been at too many races where the winners can't even say the most basic phrases.
Are you trying to turn this into another Galen-Rupp-bashing thread?
Aside from the rare victory by Gabe Jennings during one of his unmedicated manic episodes, I'm having a hard time thinking of any races in which the winners had anything to say that was worth transcribing, reading, or listening to. The same is true of just about any sports event. Just the usual platitudes from the winners, with a few thanks to God and various family members. I'd rather see a good Kenyan who lets his feet do the talking.
In any event, this wasn't designed to keep out the running equivalent of a Sergio Garcia or a Roger Federer or a Manny Pacquiao. It was designed to keep out Africans who are too good for candy-ass Americans.
JimG wrote:
OK, let's look at it this way.
You have a company (or TV show, or rock band). The key to its success and attracting investors is getting publicity.
You have the choice of hiring an executive/actor/singer who is talented, but doesn't speak English, or one slightly less talented who does. Which one do you want to trot out in front of the media?
Jim, you could make the exact same argument about physical appearance. Would it be OK for the race to disqualify ugly people? Let's not turn running into figure skating.
Pico wrote:
This is similar to governemtn banning smoking in restaurants and bars...let the market decide...if you are offended by the wording of the prize money structure, don't run the damn race.
If a restaurant wants to allow it's customers to smoke, let them...if you don't like it, don't go to that establishment.
Additionally, I am tired of people who reside in America and can not speak English...so props to Ken...a man who stands for something, like it or not.
I completely agree with you this is America and its his right to have a race and invite whoever he wants just like it’s your right to invite whoever you want to your KKK rally’s. I just happen to think you’re both A-holes and that no self respecting runner who believes in true competition should attend his race.
Boycott x 3...thank you. That is all I am saying...don't participate in the race. That is your choice, just as it is the RD's choice to put those qualifications in place.
The freedom to choose in this country is quickly being taken away by Obama and his goons. I guess this is what he meant by "change". I applaud anyone who tries excercise their freedom of choice, expression and speech, before that too is under total government control.
This RD chose to place qualifications on his prize money; you chose not to participate. What a great country. We have choices.