Is Maggie Vessey Serious?

Dave Wottle wrote:

he actually ran almost perfectly even splits

yes, nearly perfect...

now, if maggie vessey could watch this, she might learn from it. she had the right idea, but she should have made up that gap on the field at the conclusion of the first lap (like wottle). if you look closely at the vid, wottle comes through the first lap at about 1 second after the leader... wottle's time was 1:45.86...i believe wottle ran a slight negative, but possibly it could have been an even split (hard to tell on the video since they stop the watch on the leader's split...at 52.3). in any case, vessey ran similarly during the pre meet, and won it.

interested in answer wrote:

PRE didn't involve rounds. I don't think sitting and kicking in 3 races over 4 days is the best strategy here.

If only she had just hung off the end of the pack (and also benefit from a wind break)... but we have all had "if only" races, right?

As Ruth said, she is young and learning... she'll figure it out and hopefully develop into a true 800m star

Okay, I agree. I just watched the PRE video, the '72 Olympic video, and Vessey's finals video - She was a little farther back in the finals. It looks like if she closed the gap on the field sooner, we would have had a different national champion - would of, could of, should of - this is her sophomore year of running at this level - she will earn and improve.

Please Clarify wrote:

[quote]interested in answer wrote:

- she will earn and improve.

I mean 'learn' and improve...

but I guess 'earn' would be nice too

drunk runner wrote:

Dave Wottle wrote:

Watch Dave Wottle's Olympic gold. I think he was close to that far back. Granted, he actually ran almost perfectly even splits, but it IS possible. Just not smart to try and NEGATIVE split the thing.

Here it is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LHid-nC45k

Watch the video - perfect example of both how to run from behind and why its so risky.

Notice Wottle is already with the pack with 300 to go and is in 4th or 5th with 200 to go - big difference with Vessey who didn't even catch the back of the pack till 50m to go.

However, also notice that Wottle's gold medal probably never happens if he gets boxed while on the inside in the back stretch - the guy in blue ahead of him makes a move at the perfect place to allow Wottle to go to the outside without ruining his momentum. Rich Kenah had to use similar tactices to get his medal at the WC's but to get it he had to have the inside open up in the straight - otherwise he would not have medaled.

In the pre meet where Vessey's tactics worked the race went out in 56, there was not that much wind and the lead pack was dying coming into the home stretch. Big difference between that and a 59 with a windy backstretch.

I believe that the 800 is more influenced by tactics then any other distance event and that is why it is so hard to find someone to win consistently. You need someone like Kipketer who not only is faster then everybody but by sheer dominance can force the field to run thier preferred race.

Now look!! Maybe she wanted to lose, plain and simple as that!

do you mean the race where she was in the back of the pack and worked her way to the front or was there some other race where she was gapped by 30 meters by the 2nd to last runner with 400 to go? name one championship level 800 where the winner was 30 meters behind the next to last runner with 400 to go.

Any interview with her after the race?

Here is the difference:

PRE:

Jelimo: 27.13-56.87-1:28.58

Vessey: 29.24-59.98-1:30.45-2:00.18

USAs:

Clark: 29.51-59.42-1:29.48-2:00.79

Vessey:30.85-1:02.45-1:32.83-2:01.19

The difference yesterday was that Clark ran the race that Vessey should have run. Vessey grossly miscalculated how fast the field was running the first 600m of the race.

In all fairness, that's probably what happened -- she was probably tired and miscalculated how fast they were going.

It doesn't matter what the gap is between you and the guys in front of you, it matters how fast they go out and if you run even splits. If they go out in 52, if the gap is 8 seconds after 400m you'll probably be fine.

Here's the interview after the 1st round, although I'd be very interested in seeing an interview after the final.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNjtWNnGpSc&feature=channel_page

Come from behind tactics are one thing, being out of contact with the whole race is another. If shes not a front runner that's fine, but there's a huge difference btw being 20+ meters back vs. 5-10 meters back. She also needs to recognize when the race is out fast it warrants staying back, but when it's out slower she needs to keep contact because everyone's kick will be better.

If she runs from behind to take the pressure of herself early, it seems she ends up putting more pressure on the last 200m then is needed. Running from that far behind leaves few options. Fans are going to go crazy when it works (Pre Classic) and say it was a genius strategy, or they'll rip it apart when it doesn't ('09 Nationals) and say she needs to keep in contact. Again, it seems in the end this creates the pressure she may be trying to get away from.

Within this come-from-behind strategy lies the chance to be world class. She has an unbelievable kick, one that could win a race at any time. If she just closes that early gap by a few meters, her last 200m would be even more impressive.

She has the physical tools to get there, a few more seasons of international caliber races and she could be scary good.

Coach Brock is a great coach, she'll always be ready to run fast with him doing the programming. It's great to see someone proving you can get it done without Eugene or Nike money, just a good coach and track to workout on.

I was thinking at the time the shiny new NB duds she earned herself at Pre may have been a bit too heavy. May not have been too far off:

http://www.mercurynews.com/centralcoast/ci_12710950

Getting only an hour and a half of sleep the night before wouldn't be ideal. Maybe she was sleep running for the first 600m.

dg wrote:

I'm turning into MV's biggest fan - is there anyone else you would rather watch in a pro race? Anyone else who, when she runs, you just have no idea what's going to happen? Who could leave 30 meters to the field in a national championship and close on every single runner like they are high school kids? I choose her over time trialing africans, rabbit-obsessed europeans, or numbskulled Americans going out way too fast. She's doing it her way, and that makes all the difference to me. (especially if she wins a few races in Europe)

Same here. :)

1) Does anoyone have a link to the race? I saw it live, but would like to see it again.

2) How does the A,B standard equation work this time around? Gallo has a B. Is she "guaranteed" a spot? What if two lower placed finishers get an A? Does that trump her B.

chubb wrote:

1) Does anoyone have a link to the race? I saw it live, but would like to see it again.

2) How does the A,B standard equation work this time around? Gallo has a B. Is she "guaranteed" a spot? What if two lower placed finishers get an A? Does that trump her B.

1) Retired Steepler has it right on the first page of the thread:

Clark's in. If either Gall OR Wright get the A before Worlds, they both go by virtue of their top 3 finish at USA's and the IAAF provision to allow a B qualifier. It wouldn't matter if Vessey gets the A if either Gall or Wright do.

2)

Seriously, people - these things aren't that hard to find.

Dave Wottle wrote:

Watch Dave Wottle's Olympic gold. I think he was close to that far back. Granted, he actually ran almost perfectly even splits, but it IS possible. Just not smart to try and NEGATIVE split the thing.

drunk runner wrote:

Here it is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LHid-nC45k

Wow, watching that Wottle video reminds me what top-notch announcing can add to a race. Granted it was an exciting race, but Jim McKay and Liquori did a really solid job.

hillcruiser wrote:

http://www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?do=videos&event_id=580&video_id=14796#video

Seriously, people - these things aren't that hard to find.

Could the coverage of that race have been any worse?

hillcruiser wrote:

Clark's in. If either Gall OR Wright get the A before Worlds, they both go by virtue of their top 3 finish at USA's and the IAAF provision to allow a B qualifier. It wouldn't matter if Vessey gets the A if either Gall or Wright do.

Vessey is in if she gets the A and neither of the others do.