This Bodybuilder Says That Aerobic Excercise Is (GASP!) HARMFUL!!! Rebut Him, Letsrun!

i looked up the author of the article. His name's Steve Maxwell and though you can't argue with results...

http://bp2.blogger.com/_Cb6wfJ1hYMw/R-kxl6-gJoI/AAAAAAAABrg/zxXp_b8HV8Q/s1600-h/maxwel2.jpg

he is being somewhat hypocritical. Here is a piece from his blog. apparently he's a minimilist.

"I've been an outspoken critic of so-called cardio exercise, and even wrote an inflammatory blog on the ten reasons I don't do "cardio". I do, however, enjoy using my body as it was meant to naturally be used, which includes running through forests and sprinting on beaches. I don't look upon these activities as "cardio" or "calorie-burning" (although they are both) I see them as skills. Moving your body along a winding forest path, jumping over roots and rocks; making steep climbs and descents, is what our bodies were designed to do. this is a far cry from running like a domesticated rodent inside a stuffy gym under the spell of iPod and mirror. Running barefoot through a natural landscape provides a genuine skill element. My friend, the yoga master Andrey Lappa, used to run barefoot though rough terrain in the night to develop his sensory perception to such a high point he could slip and slide through the woods as comfortably as a wild beast.

Running on the balls of the feet is exhilarating and far less stressful to the knees, hips and low back. I'm very impressed with Ted's accomplishments. I have been trail running in minimalist footwear for some time, but Ted and Erwan have beyond-inspired me. My girlfriend has been running barefoot for many years (or in Vibrams) and she runs like a deer. She effortlessly runs over some of the roughest terrains and has some of the finest developed feet, ankles and calves I've ever seen. After looking at some photos of Ted and Erwan running barefoot in the snow just a few miles out of downtown Los Angeles, I pulled out my dusty Vibrams and slid them on my feet. After a push-pull workout, with bonus Pistols, I started my barefoot run (in the middle of a rainstorm) at a slow and easy pace, so my feet would adapt. The rain-soaked muddy trail offered the perfect soft surface for my feet. After my run, I felt ecstatic. Interesting enough, barefoot running is so efficient--and thus less taxing--that despite not having run in a while, I felt great. I like this natural movement technique and will be including it as part of my kettlebell and body weight regimens."

For what it's worth, here's a link to one of the many web postings of the Steve Maxwell "Ten Reasons Why I Don't Do Aerobics" article. In the comments is a post by Cichorei Kano with a particularly detailed and apparently expert commentary on the article.

http://stevegfitness.blogspot.com/2008/03/long-slow-endurance-style.html?showComment=1240913580000#c7113586175056733211

Yes, your resting metabolic rate will go up as you put on muscle, and yes, weight training puts on muscle faster, but FOR OVERALL HEALTH AND WEIGHT LOSS, running (aerobically, but intensely) wins because it burns a huge amount of calories AND builds muscle.

And we were talking about aerobic exercise, where 400 meter repeats and hill running (note I did not say hill sprints) definitely qualify. They have an anaerobic component, but both examples are still very highly aerobic and did fit with the discussion.

I am going to bed now.

Alan, you're a pussy.

Lets race. do you live anywhere in the midwest?

In 60 or 70 years, that guy will be just as dead as I am.

>>iPod silently blaring away>"I spend my days at a corporate gym. It's a sweet gig and a temporary livelihood.>One morning, while observing a female member endlessly running the treadmill-to-nowhere-fast, I realized I see the same people returning day after day, iPods silently blaring or, worse, mindlessly captivated by one of the ten wall-mounted television screens, while grinding away on those steppers and treadmills.``<

While he grinds away lifting resistance weights. In order to become a fitter person no matter your pursuit you need to grind away. This guy is overly stupid and hyper judgemental (and now I am I guess....judgemental)

%%>The drudgery of their Sisyphean tasks compels their attempts to lose self-awareness by inundating themselves with external stimuli.>Often, their bodies reflect this lack of self-awareness in skewed gaits and other imbalances.>These same people come in religiously to get the feel-good fix, believing somehow their mindless, movement addiction is in some way benefiting them.>Interestingly, they stay fat, show no progress, and sometimes even get fatter, especially after holidays.>Most of these people are loathe to touch a weight, much less engage in any kind of productive strength-training. You see this same phenomenon in gyms all over the country.>Some will say, "Well, some exercise is better than none,">But I say, if you're going to spend the time, why not produce something worthwhile?>Here are ten reasons why I don't do aerobic exercise:

But first, what is aerobic exercise? Any steady state locomotion elevating the heart rate into the zone for twenty minutes or more. The zone is determined by formulas based on age and resting heart rate.>Now, ten reasons why it not only doesn’t work but is a poor use of exercise time:

Oxidative Stress

Which causes a breakdown of tissues. It also predisposes one to cancer and heart attack. >Elevated cortisol production

Which causes a breakdown of muscle tissue and increases fat storage or depot fat. People do aerobics to alleviate stress yet end up creating more stress.>Lowered testosterone and HGH levels

For men, aerobics are a form of chemical castration. Low T-levels are associated with lowered libido, depression, anxiety, increased body fat and decreased muscle tissue. This contributes to muscle-wasting and lowers the basal metabolic rate.>Increased appetite and a tendency toward binge eating patterns Aerobic exercise makes people hungry!>Excessive Muscular Fatigue

Making it difficult to do other more productive forms of activity. Aerobics creates muscular weakness.>Conversion of fast-twitch muscle fibers to slow-twitch

The loss of fast-twitch muscle fibers contributes to aging and the loss of explosive power and speed. People become slower and slower.>Burns a relatively small amount of calories vs. the time spent One large meal completely offsets the pitiful amount of calories burned in an hour aerobics session.>Overuse injuries to the feet, ankles, and knees from excessive, continual force transmitted throughout the body

This is exacerbated by over-engineered running shoes which cushion the feet in such a way to create a neural amnesia.>Shortening i.e., deformation, of the muscle tissue from repetitive mid-range (partial range) movements

This creates inflexibility, immobility, and muscle imbalances. Besides being tight, the bodies postural alignment becomes compromised. Aerobics create tight, inflexible bodies that are in chronic pain.>Adrenal burnout

A consequence of the “feel good” neurotransmitters which also stimulate the release of adrenaline. Adrenaline is the fight or flight hormone. Excessive adrenaline creates an addictive response and people going routinely for the so called “high” of running end up with adrenal burnout, e.g., chronic fatigue and depression.>Dr. Kenneth Cooper, the father of aerobic exercise (and the person who coined the term) completely recanted his assertions regarding aerobic exercise. After observing a disproportionate number of his aerobic-enthusiast friends die of cancer and heart disease, he reversed his ideas on the benefits of excessive aerobic exercise. He now claims anything in excess of 20 minutes has greatly diminishing returns. In fact, he's now an advocate of scientific weight training. (whatever the F that means!)"<<

Cooper coined the word, which doesn't make him a genious in other ways. Running does not cause cancer any more than stupidity does.

Alan, I'm dissapointed.

The tabata sprints...

They are the latest buzz because people think you get the best of both worlds. The problems...

It is assuming that the increase in VO2max= aerobic development. That's a pretty bad assumption when according to some recent research and theories, VO2max is dependent on muscle fiber recruitment. Thus, the increase in VO2max you are seeing in recreationally trained or sedentary people is likely partly due to the ability to recruit more motor units.

Secondly, the Tabata protocal, after the inititial rep or two, is an aerobic workout. The rest is so short that the CP is shot, and your anaerobic capacity is used quickly. Your pace will also fall rapidly. All that being said, the majority of the work after is aerobic in nature.

It's going to be rough when your heart can not support all that meat on your bones.

You guys are at the gym trying to make yourself look pretty for the girls. The people I hang with don't run for vanity, women included. We run for the sport. I could give a rats a$$ what I look like or how long past 60 I live as long as I can accomplish my goals in this sport.

By the way, I also can't stand the people on the treadmills with I-pods watching television. There are not many of those types on this board. You should go to one of those magazine forums for running and complain.

So while I'm out in the thick of competition fighting for the win you'll in a dank gym somewhere looking in the mirror flexing after each set in admiration for yourself searching for who knows what.

Have fun with that and keep theorizing!!!

-Shortening i.e., deformation, of the muscle tissue from repetitive mid-range (partial range) movements

This creates inflexibility, immobility, and muscle imbalances. Besides being tight, the bodies postural alignment becomes compromised. Aerobics create tight, inflexible bodies that are in chronic pain.

Hmmmmmmm.......isn't shortening the muscles, the actual point of weightlifting? And weightlifting really limbers you up. Let's see this guy try and swing a golf club, or easier yet, try and scratch halfway up his own back.

"You can give people the tools for success. However, success is intimidating to those who have never experienced it."

If someone comes up to me and wants me to train them to get into shape you think I'm just going to tell them to go run 50 miles a week? That's the absolute worst thing to do. Is some form of cardio prescribed, yes but it's not the focus and it's not trying to get someone to run everyday which is far too stressful to most people...which is why most people who try to run end up hurt regardless of how slow they take it. The cardio I prescribe to people is mostly some sort of interval training (bike, elliptical, etc) or even a bodyweight circuit (kettlebell swings, box step overs, etc).

"You have to be fit to run but you don't run to get fit."

I realize I am playing with fire talking on a RUNNING message board and trying to get people to understand the concept of fitness beyond just pounding away at the pavement. Fitness is more than just cardiorespiratory endurance. Do some bodybuilders take it too far in the other extreme? Sure they do. Most do some form of cardio unless they are really trying to bulk. I very much used to be a "cardio trainer" where weight lifting was only secondary in my exercise prescriptions....but then I educated myself and sought out the knowledge of those far more knowledgeable than me.

Again, I used to be a farely fast runner, if someone wants to become a competitive runner then by all means go ahead. That goal is different than just being fit or getting into shape. I've helped people lose pounds hand over foot, I've helped people break 3:00 in the marathon. A goal is a goal.

If you don't want to believe the knowledge I am trying to put forth then don't. I can't make you believe something that you already are biased against. I've seen people actualy GAIN BODY FAT by switching from a more weight lifting intense program to a more cardio intense program.

Never argue about politics, religion, or fitness...;)

Good reads about cardio:

http://figureathlete.tmuscle.com/article/training/step_away_from_the_treadmill

http://figureathlete.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/training/the_final_nail_in_the_cardio_coffin

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Training/aerobics-2.php

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Training/aerobics-1.php

Alan

Charles poliquin? Are you kidding me?

You got to have better sources than that?

Also wanted to add. From my experience, be wary of anyone who refers to endurance training activities as "cardio". It's just my rule of thumb, but whenever people start talking about cardio this and cardio that it generally means they know very little about training and exercise science. It's been a pretty accurate barometer for me so far.

ChiTown Hustler wrote:

-Shortening i.e., deformation, of the muscle tissue from repetitive mid-range (partial range) movements

This creates inflexibility, immobility, and muscle imbalances. Besides being tight, the bodies postural alignment becomes compromised. Aerobics create tight, inflexible bodies that are in chronic pain.

Hmmmmmmm.......isn't shortening the muscles, the actual point of weightlifting? And weightlifting really limbers you up. Let's see this guy try and swing a golf club, or easier yet, try and scratch halfway up his own back.

Powerlifters are among the most flexible Olympic athletes out there. Lift in a full range of motion and you'll have more flexibility. Running, which is done through a very small range of motion, leads to a very tight and inflexible posterior chain, tight hip flexors, and then an anterior pelvic tilt.

Have you seen the back of some bodybuilders? No degree of flexibility will allow you to scratch your back if you have lats that look like eagle's wings. I've never seen a competitive distance runner do the splits. I have seen a 200lb bodybuilder do the splits on stage.... funny stuff.

There is a huge misconception about bodybuilders. They're not all 250lb giants who look like roided up farm animals. Check out a natural amateur show on You Tube some day.

In bodybuilding it's the illusion of being big that is key. Hell, I bet if some of you took about 6-12 months and lifted you could enter a Bantamweight contest...provided you're no more than 5'6" tall.

This guy was 170lbs on stage, 5'9".

Yes, it's weird, the fake tan, shorts, and oil are a necessary evil. But the goal is simple....to present the best physique possible.

Alan

Ok, so you don't "Believe in the Run?"Why are you posting on letrun? This board is supposed to be a safe place for runners who think there is no equivalent to running no matter what any expert says. It matters not being "in shape" or not. Running is for the spirit, the soul. It's for a brighter outlook on life, to give you something to look forward to; it's something you have control over. Just wondering.

Not that I'm arguing, but you contradict yourself in your post saying that powerlifters are very flexible. Then you say, "no degree of flexiblility....." The video posted shows flexibliliy either.

Calling running, "cardio" on letsrun.com is like calling pushups, "weighttraining" on IamshortandinsecureandsoIlifttoomuchtomakeupforit.com.

I enjoy doing some minimal weight training (more like crossfit), but I prefer running. That's why I hangout here.

I have lost all respect for Runningart2004

Also, since when is extreme flexibility a good thing?

Most research points to extreme range of motion as being MORE prone to injuries. The same with extreme inflexibility.

Another flaw in tabata protocol is that it's very hard to do. Prof. Tabata said that very few athletes would have the discipline to execute it properly and even fewer would willingly do it. His study subjects were on the freakin Olympic team. The 20 sec "on" phase is defined as "maximal" effort for EACH interval. If you try to game it and get balanced intervals, you're not doing tabata. There should be a significant drop-off by the end of the set. I did Tabata Something Else a month ago (it's time for another try) and it screws you up good.

This conversation is comparing apples and oranges so far. For one thing, you can't compare athlete preparation for a specific sport with "general fitness" (whatever that is). If your goal race is 13.1M, you're going to require 2nd and 3rd order sport-specific body changes and use a periodized schedule.

Next, "aerobic" and "weight-lifting" are very broad terms.

http://www.endurancecorner.com/library/exercise_physiology/endurance_physiology_language

The Mammoth group does weights and plyos 5 days a week. They are probably doing more box jumps and squats and less kettle bell swings and working on increasing their snatch max, but that's like comparing the Reformed Evangelical Presbylutheran Synod with the Evangelical Reformed Presbylutheran Diocese. 9/10ths of the stuff is the same, but people have huge fights over it.

Both sides are erecting straw men and look like fools for it. If you want some applied muscular endurance workouts that require and complement a deep aerobic base look here:

http://navyseals.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=84

http://mtnathlete.com/page.php?page_ID=9

It's like Coach Canova wrote: "Add, don't replace."

This post was composed for the other Alan bashing thread that got deleted. It still fits in well with this thread so I am posting it here.

I have to step up and say that Alan/Runningart2004 is a great poster and always has good things to say. The reason people are disagreeing is that his thoughts often run against the grain of most peoples, but that is a good thing as most people have no idea what they are talking about.

He is right when he says that most runners, especially Letsrun runners, think they know everything about health and fitness when really they only know a small percentage more than the average person.

Alan's posts are usually right. Sure he is not always right, but he is always evolving. He reads the latest scientific literature as well as working from his own personal experience to form an informed opinion.

Alan has the education, knowledge, and the ability to critically apply both of them to the health and fitness world.

I am an ACSM personal trainer with a similiar background to Alan. I have never met him before or talked with him outside this message board. On other threads concerning Health and Fitness I have read down the posts of misinformation thinking these people are clueless. I start forming my own thoughts on what to post to straighten everyone out. Then Alan beats me to it and posts exactly what needs to be said and what I had been thinking.

Runningart2004 is a great poster and Letsrun is lucky to have him.

On a side note everyone is assuming that weight training means you do a bicep curl or bench press set and then sit around for 10 minutes. Just like running there are different ways to lift weights.

I have found the best way is to lift weights in a circuit where you jump from exercise to exercise with no rest. Choose full body functional movements such as pushups, pull ups, deadlifts, squats etc. Use olympic rings, TRX, etc. to create instability and increase the muscles needed for exercises.

You end up working yourself anaerobically similiar to repeats on the track. You really do get the best of everything when you workout this way. Then if you want to add in some running once you are done, go ahead.

Don't be one of those runners who buries their head in the sand and says running is all there is. There is so much more.