Rupp @ Washington indoor meet: 1:51 and 4:10 with a kick

Amen to that.

Another Douchebag Lawyer wrote:

trialswatcher wrote:

That I was surprised that many folks thought it that big a deal that a close to 4 minute miler could run 1:51.33.

I have said for a long time, that anyone who can run 4 minutes or near in HS or otherwise, is probably either a 1:52.00 guy at least or an 8:40's low candidate.Plain and simple.

So when Rupp ran his seed time? It WAS his seed time, I was legitamtely surprised that many were that surprised, and that is it.

If Bobby Curtis ran open 1:51 800 the first time he stepped on the track indoors this year, you'd be all over 2 or 3 different message boards claiming him to be the second coming of Christ.

Has Bobby Curtis EVER run 1:51 indoors? I don't think so...and yet he's much better than a 4:00 miler. Shows how much your theory is worth.

Curtis does not have to run 1:51.x indoors or out to prove anything related to my point, he had already split under 1:50.00 so much for that attempt at a bash.

He HAD already done it, get it? ALREADY. Or is that friggin concept so lost on you two.

At least come back with something that makes sense.

Curtis ran 1:52.x in HS

No one has said he is the second coming of anything, what he is, is faster at 5K and mile than Rupp,and by a bit not 1 second at each 4 and 5, not my fault, just is.

Doesn;t make him the second coming of anything, all it does is make him have faster Prs, not debateable.

Next.....Please come up with better and nastier digs than that.

Curtis does not have to run 1:51.x indoors or out to prove anything related to my point, he had already split under 1:50.00 so much for that attempt at a bash.

He HAD already done it, get it? ALREADY. Or is that friggin concept so lost on you two.

At least come back with something that makes sense.

Curtis ran 1:52.x in HS

No one has said he is the second coming of anything, what he is, is faster at 5K and mile than Rupp,and by a bit not 1 second at each 4 and 5, not my fault, just is.

Doesn;t make him the second coming of anything, all it does is make him have faster Prs, not debateable.

Next.....Please come up with better and nastier digs than that.

This is what happens when folks do not deal in fact, but emotion only.

Curtis already ran under 1:50.00 in a relay just another ridiculous point made by you and agreed to by Ramxc

he doesn;t have to run 1:51.xx Indoors to prove anything, nor would it mean anything.

You have to do much better than this, really..

Curtis ran 1:52 in HS, doesn;t make him the second coming of anything.

But he is faster at the mile and 5 K and not by a little than Rupp, that is just fact something you guys would do better to deal in than stupid inaccuracies left and right , really.

It is so much more fun when you respond , especially when wildly incorrect.

1) You said before that you were done commenting on this thread. Maybe you could do us the favor of upholding your promise.

2) The point of the previous discussion was that you would fall all over yourself in praise of Curtis had he done what Rupp did. It had nothing to do with Curtis' previous efforts at 800m or a mile; simply your enthusiasm for Curtis compared to your disdain for Rupp.

3) On Dyestat you wrote:

"I guarantee Curtis runs faster at 5K than Rupp ever does, all in on that, yes."

I'll bet you $1000 that Rupp's 5km PR will be better than Curtis'.

When they both retire we can settle up.

Dave Frank

Dave , I have no disdain for Rupp, only call it like it is.

You are too close to the situation to have ever been objective, at least call that like anyone can see it.

Regards, and done on this, stop addressing me direct and I will stop posting on this.

Dave , I have no disdain for Rupp, only call it like it is.

You are too close to the situation to have ever been objective, at least call that like anyone can see it.

Regards, and I am done on this, stop addressing me direct and I will stop posting on this.

King, your writing style when you post is annoying and irritating, especially on Dyestat. It goes beyond just having typos (of which there are many). Often times you have fragments of sentences just thrown together, as well as random words in all caps for no apparent reason. It just looks like some third grader got onto your name and wrote a bunch of incoherent nonsense. Please learn how to type, for the love of god.

King, your writing style when you post is annoying and irritating, especially on Dyestat. It goes beyond just having typos (of which there are many). Often times you have fragments of sentences just thrown together, as well as random words in all caps for no apparent reason. It just looks like some third grader got onto your name and wrote a bunch of incoherent nonsense. Please learn how to type, for the love of god.

So, in my previous post, I addressed/refuted/answered virtually all of your points in a reasonable and logical nature. What did I get for all my trouble? This typo-ridden, meandering, no facts, no answers, no discussion of my salient points, nothing of an effort. You know King, for all of my dislike for your previous posts over the years, I at least thought that you might give more than this drivel.Regardless, I'll still give you an honest effort.

Controversy and debate are fine. Continuously slamming a kid - and, yes, we both know that's what you do - is inappropriate.

Is hatred an emotion? Because your hatred for Rupp/Salazar has always come through loud and clear to me.

It got "blwin out of proportion" because I'm willing to call you on the carpet for your continued personal vendetta against Rupp. Unlike you I don't hide behind my screen name (or names), I don't hijack a thread to suit my personal agenda (the Dyestat thread where you brought the whole Bobby Curtis comparison into play), and, with the recent exception of my involving Zagorski in the issue, I don't speak negatively about our current stable of young runners.

It wasn't just surprise at Rupp's effort; it was the idea that he had run reasonably fast - given that he NEVER had run remotely that fast before. [I'm sure you'll take this opportunity to denounce his 1:51 seed time as phony, and an example of how he has all the advantages, and how it's unfair that a kid with a PR of 1:59 got into the fast heat, etc...]

It was the excitement that a 10km kid - one of our bright young stars - beat a 3:56 miler, regardless of the pacing, tactics, etc... only 30min after a reasonably fast effort at 800m. While others were excited about this effort - in the way that college hoops fans might be excited by the Kentucky kid going off for 54 last week - you immediately step in and rain on the parade.

When you're called on it, you get even more defensive and explain that "Rupp didn't outkick Sherer; Rupp was so far behind that Sherer didn't even see him coming" or some crap to that extent. Is the implication that Rupp's win was tainted because Sherer failed hold him off? That Sherer eased up? Call it what you want, but, in your own words, it is what it is: Rupp 1st place, Sherer 2nd place. Again, a pretty good effort for a guy we all know is truly a 10km (marathon?) guy.

Unfortunately it's not true that no one cares what you think. On occasion you show true insight. In my opinion it's only when Rupp is involved does your dark side rear it's ugly head.

Same old, same old... you are a master (a compliment) at subtlety. For years you've ripped the both of them, not always directly, but the sentiment has always been clear.

I don't have the wherewithal to go back through years of Dyestat posts to find anything particular, but you and I and any regular readers know that this is true.

Yes, because it is almost always preceded or followed by some other dig. The statement I referenced previously regarding his NCAA XC win was a prime example; you stated that he was suppose to dominate - never giving any credit to the idea that he has evolved from a kid that had no national championships (one of your key discussion points for years) to a kid who is SO good that he is expected to dominate. You've claimed for a long time that he has less "upside" than many others over the years; how much "upside" does 27:33 indicate? Go ahead, admit that your posts from 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 years ago were wrong! He has succeeded at the next level - and more than likely will continue to improve; he's only 22 years old.

Well, no it wasn't. And it's not likely to be.

Maybe, just maybe, will you respond directly to my points?

What will Galen have to do for you to admit that you've been wrong? Give me some performance goals that would be good enough for the great King99 to admit he might have been, just barely, wrong about the kid.

I'll say - given that he stays healthy - he'll go under 3:57 for a mile, under 7:40 for 3km, under 13:10, and under 27:10 THIS YEAR. Maybe he'll win some championships too.

What do you say King?

I have to side with King. The guy knows his stuff and I think he backed his assertion about how certain times correlate to hypothetical performances.

It was a solid day for Rupp; he ran the times he should run. He\'s really good. But why the big deal about this performance? Alan Webb could\'ve crushed him in both races, yet still can run a comparable 10K.

People from Oregon are so defensive when it comes to Rupp.

Galen, get a restraining order against Ramxc.

I say, you are probably right with your predictiosn on those marks.

I alos know that other than MRR, nothing I ever posted about Galen Rupp or his accomplishments upset anyone nearly as much as you, perhaps you should explain your relationship , so that folks have a perspective.

Also, I never ever limited in any way what Galen Rupp's abilities were, you really need to show evidnece of this if you repeatedly accuse me of something I never did.

The guy ran 4:01.8 and 8:03 /13:37 in HS, who would limti a time he could run?Years later?

What I said then , and more than once ,has been entirely true.

I said back then, he ran best in set up races designed specifically for him to run fast(Totally true).Going back to the short field HS mile attempt he made all the way to the Armory 2 mile hook up designed to get him the fast mark, but McDougal beat him heads up.

Many guys do this as well(run better in dragged alongs), does not make you a bad person, certainly not a bad runner.

I never ever bashed Salazer(his results speak for themselves in all ways), you really need to get a grip on the accusations, seriously.

You may not like me, and that is fine with me, really, just do not be inaccurate, I never said Rupp would not run fast, not ever.

Please do not insert your opinion of me for what I actually wrote or said, there is no place for that and you have exagerrated greatly multiple times what I did actually say, in fact it is laughable, how inaccurate.

I did say he was a better TT type than racer, I would still say that is relatively true, so would others if they dared stand up to the same trashing you have done of me!!And were honest.

Dave, you don;t like me, never did, but please do not let your personal feelings cloud fact and what I actually said, now or in the past.

Stcik to what I did say, that apparently offends you enough.

I don't want you to stop posting on this; I want you to stop posting negatively about Galen forever.You're entitled to your opinion, but you continually refer to your assertions as fact, "I only call it like it is." Just because you say so doesn't make it a fact.I can live with criticism - and I don't confuse criticism with negativism - of myself, of Rupp, of Salazar. What I can't live with is the vitriol - overt or somewhere just below the surface - that accompanies your criticism of Rupp.You say you have no disdain for Rupp. That may well be true deep in your heart of hearts, but I'd be willing to guess that if I poll dyestat/letsrun readers, at least 70-80% would say that you clearly have something against Rupp. It is what it is.And, yes, I'm close to Alberto and Galen. This does not cloud my view of your negativity. There are numerous others on dyestat and letsrun who share my opinion; even your pal Scotty alluded to your position with this line:"...Rupp is the overall better runner [compared to Curtis]. No one (except King99) ever contested that..."Do you recall five years ago, the discussion on dyestat when Rupp ran 13:37? The gist of the discussion was that all the knives in your house needed to be hidden for fear that you might kill yourself. Of course, we understood that this was to be taken in jest, but the overt sentiment was that you hated Rupp so much that you couldn't bear to live after he achieved that particular success.This is, of course, just one example of how you do, in fact, have disdain for Rupp.And, no, I won't stop addressing you directly on this. For years you've gone at Galen regardless of how others felt about it; the fact that you want this to stop now holds absolutely no sway with me.I am a compassionate human, but you have made your own bed over the years regarding this situation. If you ever decide to make amends and admit to the personal axe you've been grinding all these years, well, then we might have something civil to talk about.

trialswatcher wrote:

Dave , I have no disdain for Rupp, only call it like it is.

You are too close to the situation to have ever been objective, at least call that like anyone can see it.

Regards, and done on this, stop addressing me direct and I will stop posting on this.

Dave,

1. Rupp is now 22, can we dispense with the "kid" thing, it's getting creepy.

2. Rupp is no victim, he has allowed Nike to create this "specter of celebrity" around him. Nobody is obligated to support a/any celebrity. Even if only for the sake of protecting their investment, Nike/Salazar should have hired professional handlers for Rupp. More times than anyone cares to recount, Rupp comes off like a complete tool.

3. Like him or not, Salazar is one VERY shifty character and has always been tied to doping, balco, etc.

4. Rupp is a great talent, but is also a polarizing kind of guy. You're close to him and fully support him, great. No need to grovel for him.

5. Rupp is now held up as the banner for the future of American distance running, that's a lot of pressure and high expectations. Does Rupp deserve this distinction all that much more than Bauhs? Maybe a little, but ONLY a little.

6. The last several (smaller/dual) Oregon meets I attended, virtually no one was cheering for Rupp, actually in the front row at the finish EVERYONE was screaming for Shadrack.

Rupp isn't the soul of Oregon's running community, he's a Nike product. Obviously big meets are different, they're all about celebrity. The more I see and hear about Rupp it's becoming clear that Rupp/Salazar are mostly about celebrity too.

I don't have any arguments with anything you've said. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but you've done in one effort something that King has failed to do for years: say it reasonably, rationally, and seemingly without hatred. You've stated your opinion, and it's clear that it's just your opinion - not an irrefutable fact.I don't expect that everyone should support Galen, but the message board etiquette (or lack thereof) leaves me dizzy.I'm confident that we all love distance running and that we'd like to see Americans run well. We don't have to agree on everything, but when we disagree can't we make some attempt to do it civilly?Thanks.

You are over the top on this, and it's personal not practical.

So be it. Last word from me, finally. Enjoy yourself.

This is the sound of NOBODY CARING.

radix totus malum wrote:

6. The last several (smaller/dual) Oregon meets I attended, virtually no one was cheering for Rupp, actually in the front row at the finish EVERYONE was screaming for Shadrack.

Rupp isn't the soul of Oregon's running community, he's a Nike product. Obviously big meets are different, they're all about celebrity. The more I see and hear about Rupp it's becoming clear that Rupp/Salazar are mostly about celebrity too.

I've been to my share of meets at Oregon since Galen was in high school and this has never been my experience. Galen has always been well received at every Oregon track and xc meet I've been to.

My ongoing frustration is, there are two distinct camps regarding Rupp and Oregon. One based on objectivity and what actually goes on (and there are valid opinions on both sides here) and another based on biased rumors, false reports, people holding Rupp to impossible standards, and pure spite.

trialswatcher wrote:

I alos know that other than MRR, nothing I ever posted about Galen Rupp or his accomplishments upset anyone nearly as much as you, perhaps you should explain your relationship , so that folks have a perspective..

Wow missed a lot on this thread...

I don't know what you're suggesting there? I don't know Ramxc(as far as i know) And it seems multiple people have the same feeling, not just RAMXC.

So Rupp ran 401.8 in hs...how many hs guys who ran 401.8 or faster went 151.3 or faster indoors in hs? Answer is 0.

As others pointed out, Rupp is a 10k runner. This was Rupps first race....INDOORS. You'd have to be on some serious crack to not think that's a big deal. If this was August, and Rupp was at his peak in some great 800 weather. What would he run? 151.3? Doubt it. He's not some 800 runner who's 1 month away from his peak. He's a 10k runner 7 months away fromm his peak doing a workout/rust buster to prepare for BIG coming up.

Then there is the fact that it did not stop there. 30 minutes rest and he outkicks sherer. ANd i did watch the video. Sherer DID know he was there, was impossible not to with the announcer screaming it. And showed no reaction after Rupp passed him...no surprise, nothing, just had nothing left.

If someone were to tell you before the race, that Rupp, a 10k runner in his first meet in January, would run a 151.3, take a 30 min break, and then beat Sherer in the mile. You honestly wouldn't say no way no how? Please! lol.