Rupp.....now is he ever gonna break 4, this one is a mystery to me. he obviously really wants to as hes raced a mile lots of times in the last couple of years and i really cant understand how someone that strong cant break 4. i know guys who could not get near sub 28.00 but were strong and fast enough to run 3.59 at least. i do have to point out that i would obviously rather run 27.30's for 10km, make world and olympic finals than worry about breaking 4, but just seems bizarre to me.
The year Pinto ran the Euro record in the marathon, he went to the track later in the season and ran 3:39/1500 (equal to 3:57 mile), and also 27:20 10,000.
There is a correlation between decent track speed and success in the marathon, especially these days, with the marathon being run at such high speeds...in the 2:05-2:06 range.
The best Japanese marathon boys are all close to 28 minutes for 10,000 and that should be a minimum for marathons in the 2:07 and under range. How else will you be able to cruise along at around 30 minutes for 10km portions if you are deficient in that department.....you will be under too much stress.
Hall, if he had focused on the mile, could have got down to around 3:55 or better, but it will be difficult now, with so many miles in the tank.
Ghost in Saudi,
Apply now, good perks and conditions
correlation!=causation.Obviously if I run a 27 min 10k, you know I have a good vo2, anaerobic threshold, and economy. The only question is can I hand the energy portion of the marathon. You would expect excellent correlation.Now if I run a 3:50 mile, you know I have great anaerobic system, vo2 max, and economy. That doesn't correlate as well. You have 2 of the parts but the other 2 are unknowns.
ghost wrote:
The year Pinto ran the Euro record in the marathon, he went to the track later in the season and ran 3:39/1500 (equal to 3:57 mile), and also 27:20 10,000.
There is a correlation between decent track speed and success in the marathon, especially these days, with the marathon being run at such high speeds...in the 2:05-2:06 range.
The best Japanese marathon boys are all close to 28 minutes for 10,000 and that should be a minimum for marathons in the 2:07 and under range. How else will you be able to cruise along at around 30 minutes for 10km portions if you are deficient in that department.....you will be under too much stress.
Hall, if he had focused on the mile, could have got down to around 3:55 or better, but it will be difficult now, with so many miles in the tank.
Ghost in Saudi,
http://www.kfupm.edu.saApply now, good perks and conditions
Hall will probably get around to another track segment or two at some point in his career.
It seems that he's been ticking off a lot of marathon competition-related goals:
1) race a marathon competitively (London 2007)
2) race a marathon fast (London 2008)
3) compete in the Olympics (Beijing 2008)
4) trying to win a major marathon (Boston 2009)
After accomplishing these goals, it will be time to evaluate where he stands, and what he needs to do to improve on being 5th at London and 10th at Beijing.
The fact is, Hall got dominated by Wanjiru etc. at Beijing. He needs to find a way to race them and not get dominated. Perhaps doing so in the world athletics champs 10k or a big half-marathon (GNr, world half champs) is a more realistic proposition than doing so in a marathon. After all, 59:30 in a solo effort is only a minute off the world record! If he could get in a half-marathon race against Wanjiru/Tadesse/Merga/etc. and show he is podium-class that would definitely be a step in the right direction.
It would be great to see him do that in a track 10k also. But is that really realistic? He'd have to essentially run his current 5k PB back-to-back. Not saying he can't do it. But I find 59:30 in a solo effort much more encouraging than 3:42/13:16 after years of focusing on those events and running them in high-caliber meets.
Hall may just not do well with the environment of track racing. I know guys like that at a variety of levels. Like I know a guy who focuses on the marathon; one time he won a 10k road race in 31:10. But on the track he has only run 15:07/32:21. Based on his road time he really wants to get in a 'get-in-line-and-PB' 10k race and go for a sub-30:30, because he's trying to run a 2:19 marathon and most of the other guys going for that can run 29:30-30:30. But he also knows that on the roads he just rolls a lot better. He can cruise through a 15:30 5k split on the roads without feeling too tired; on the track he's had 5k races where he can't break 15:30.
a lot of knowledgeable people ranging from physiologists and coaches suggest a break from marathons after a few years...the theory is that the legs only have a certain amount of very fast marathons in them and that doing more then 1-2 marathons a year shortens a marathoners career.
Hall's legs looked heavy just a few miles into the marathon and he was missing that pop in his stride that has been there in all of his best races...1/2 marathon record, London 08 and the OT.
Maybe it was the heat, but I'm guessing the fact that it was his forth nearly all-out marathon in 18 months had something to do with it.
The Olympic and WC marathons are anomalies among major marathons. No rabbits and the conditions and courses can act as equalizers. There are no big conclusions to be drawn from having a poor race in that scenario.
Bill Rodgers did just fine running three marathons per year for quite a long time, and of any in the current crop of US males Hall reminds me the most of Rodgers. Anyway, if Hall was really interested in a lengthy career then he probably would have stuck with the 10,000m and collected a pile of US titles and maybe even a US record or two, just like the guys in the '90s were content to do. Going by appearances, Hall is more about ultimate glory than he is in stringing out his career and taking an easier way out.
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Not to mention, I don't see Hall ever winning a major marathon in a close finish because a 30 second 200m is all out to him.
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There are a lot of dumb comments on this thread but this one is one of the worst. Hall has run 1:49 or 1:50 for the 800m. Do you really think 30 secs is his top end? Seriously, I would bet a month's pay that he could run 25 from blocks when fresh.
dont you wish you could run a wrote:
Hall will probably get around to another track segment or two at some point in his career.
It seems that he's been ticking off a lot of marathon competition-related goals:
1) race a marathon competitively (London 2007)
2) race a marathon fast (London 2008)
3) compete in the Olympics (Beijing 2008)
4) trying to win a major marathon (Boston 2009)
After accomplishing these goals, it will be time to evaluate where he stands, and what he needs to do to improve on being 5th at London and 10th at Beijing.
The fact is, Hall got dominated by Wanjiru etc. at Beijing. He needs to find a way to race them and not get dominated. Perhaps doing so in the world athletics champs 10k or a big half-marathon (GNr, world half champs) is a more realistic proposition than doing so in a marathon. After all, 59:30 in a solo effort is only a minute off the world record! If he could get in a half-marathon race against Wanjiru/Tadesse/Merga/etc. and show he is podium-class that would definitely be a step in the right direction.
It would be great to see him do that in a track 10k also. But is that really realistic? He'd have to essentially run his current 5k PB back-to-back. Not saying he can't do it. But I find 59:30 in a solo effort much more encouraging than 3:42/13:16 after years of focusing on those events and running them in high-caliber meets.
Hall may just not do well with the environment of track racing. I know guys like that at a variety of levels. Like I know a guy who focuses on the marathon; one time he won a 10k road race in 31:10. But on the track he has only run 15:07/32:21. Based on his road time he really wants to get in a 'get-in-line-and-PB' 10k race and go for a sub-30:30, because he's trying to run a 2:19 marathon and most of the other guys going for that can run 29:30-30:30. But he also knows that on the roads he just rolls a lot better. He can cruise through a 15:30 5k split on the roads without feeling too tired; on the track he's had 5k races where he can't break 15:30.
I agree with some of what you are saying but this:
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The fact is, Hall got dominated by Wanjiru etc. at Beijing. He needs to find a way to race them and not get dominated. Perhaps doing so in the world athletics champs 10k or a big half-marathon (GNr, world half champs) is a more realistic proposition than doing so in a marathon. After all, 59:30 in a solo effort is only a minute off the world record! If he could get in a half-marathon race against Wanjiru/Tadesse/Merga/etc. and show he is podium-class that would definitely be a step in the right direction.
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... is also dumb. "only a minute off the WR" means they are pulling away from you by 4-5 seconds per mile. That is a world away from 58:30. All I am saying is that 60 seconds is A LOT. Not criticizing Hall. If you are :60 off the WR at the Half, then you shoudl be 2:00 off at the full marathon ... which he is close. You should also be about 30 off at 10k. It would be great if he made it to that level in a race.
To nearly all of you:
You guys are way off. HE can run a sub-4:00 in workout. He can also run sub-28:00 whenever he wants. Anybody can tell that. Many WC runners have run sub-4:00 in a workout. Rod Dixon for example.
Also, Dixon is a great example: He was world ranked and at the top of the World Lists in the 5k for YEARS. I believe he ran 3:33 for 1500 and maybe 3:54 for mile. I think he ran 13:17 for 5k and he definitely ran a 2:09 marathon. So why didn't he run 27:30?
He COULD HAVE, that is the point. He was training for Moscow when the boycott happened and he was angry and he said he didn't want to run the circuit all those weeks and then have to sit around and watch the others run the Olympics. so he came to the U.S. and started road racing and then never ran on the track again. He skipped from the 5K/3K to the 10k and middle-road-racing distances and then to the marathon.
Doesn't mean he (or Hall) couldn't run sub-4:00 or sub-28:00 anymore, they just didn't. Actually, Dixon says that he ran some amazing 3200-1600-800 workout where he ran 3:59 or 3:58 ... it is probably on the web somewhere.
Looks like along with pacing his wife in workouts, Ryan has his own aspirations to finally break 4:00.