A discussion of important things that should be taught in schools but aren't (NRR -- Non Relationship/Running Related)

It's just as well that schools don't teach important subjects like economics, social interaction, logic, etc. Because if they molest those subjects as badly as they've butchered everything else, the kids will end up less educated rather than more. The people who say that public schools need "fixing" are obviously miseducated themselves, because it is a mistake to assume that a "fix" is even possible in the first place. For as long as I have been alive, people have been carrying on nonstop about what "we" need to do in order to "fix" the public education system. Decades of liberal groupthink and trillions of dollars have produced literally less than nothing in the way of improvement. The public schools are totally unproductive kindergartens where grown 18 year old adults color with crayons for anatomy lab and discuss literature that has no relevance to them while being fully unable to organize a paragraph, conjugate a verb, or punctuate a sentence. If the above is true, and it is, why does anybody expect the situation to change in the near future, or think that it even can be changed? Because they march in streets chanting "YES WE CAN?" The massively failed experiment with public education is a clear example of what happens when a country puts social goals ahead of individual interests. And, now, rather than learning from the mistake, we're about to go in the same direction with healthcare. Awesome, yay society!

Yes. Giving up is the best course of action. What an idiot.

First of all, I don't want to get into a some cyber-debate over the public/private differences. I think we both are in agreement that education is important. You make many valid points.

As far as the disruptive classroom behavior goes, the parents are often the problem. You may have a kid that the teacher knows is BD, ADD, etc. but unless the parents agree to have them tested, then your hands are tied. Parents don't want their kids "labeled", so they refuse testing. Even if the testing occurs, the red tape and time delays can take well over a year, and by then problems are harder to correct. The beaurocratic delays are something that private schools do not have to endure. Too many public school administrators are so out of touch with the classroom that they just don't get it.

No BRM, the sad thing is that your math sucks. Funny and sad.

PublicPrivate wrote:

First of all, I don't want to get into a some cyber-debate over the public/private differences. I think we both are in agreement that education is important. You make many valid points.

As far as the disruptive classroom behavior goes, the parents are often the problem. You may have a kid that the teacher knows is BD, ADD, etc. but unless the parents agree to have them tested, then your hands are tied. Parents don't want their kids "labeled", so they refuse testing. Even if the testing occurs, the red tape and time delays can take well over a year, and by then problems are harder to correct. The beaurocratic delays are something that private schools do not have to endure. Too many public school administrators are so out of touch with the classroom that they just don't get it.

Exactly right. That's what needs to change. Take the kid out of the classroom and the parents will get the message. There is no law against removing a disruptive child.

As for school administrators, teachers and parents both need to grow a backbone and stand up to these dolts until they listen.

School administrations need to not put such an emphasis on getting adequate test scores for the entire student body. This problem starts with the state that puts a benchmark for schools to make. When all the emphasis is put on passing tests (which in my opinion are not a true measure of intelligence) the learning process is forgotten.

sensimilla wrote:

School administrations need to not put such an emphasis on getting adequate test scores for the entire student body. This problem starts with the state that puts a benchmark for schools to make. When all the emphasis is put on passing tests (which in my opinion are not a true measure of intelligence) the learning process is forgotten.

Well, at present the State educators are hamstrung by the so-called No Child Left Behind act. They *must* arrange for testing of their kids!

Education--true *education*--of schoolkids would have a chance to improve significantly if NCLB were repealed, but because of its name (yes, that alone) the act's repeal is unlikely. The irony is that, for all the emphasis (and teaching time) that's been put on it, the kids' test-taking ability has, on average, improved very little.

jean wrote:

I'm not a big fan of the "good ol' days" (which weren't necessarily so good) in education, but they got some things right:

1. Have a *vigorous* gym class every day--and, when you're out of school, continue with daily vigorous activity.

[It turns out that kids, especially boys, learn academic stuff better when they're doing regular large-muscle activity. Substituting more reading/arithmetic time in place of gym defeats its own purpose. (Ditto for the deletion of music from the schools--kids spending time with music do better academically.)]

...while I agree with this statement most modern research actually states that it's especially GIRLS that this applies to. And rather than large-muscle activity...its more like ANY PHYSICAL ACTIVITY is correlated with better academic success in school-age children.

Right now as a student at an elite private college my observation is that the public school kids tend to be smarter. Maybe at the younger ages private schools are superior- I really cannot speak from experience on that matter. But in high school parents pay for private schools to get their kids into top colleges, not for the superior education. And they are usually sucessful.

Compound Interest.

good topic idea. these should be mandatory in all u.s. high schools:

1. Geography

2. Economics

3. Religion (not a specific type, but like a religion 101 preferably taught by a history teacher)

Edu Advocate wrote:

good topic idea. these should be mandatory in all u.s. high schools:

1. Geography

2. Economics

3. Religion (not a specific type, but like a religion 101 preferably taught by a history teacher)

\"I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uhmmm, some people, out there in our nation don’t have maps and uh, I believe that our, I, education like such as uh, South Africa, and uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should, uhhh, our education over here in the US should help the U.S., uh, should help South Africa, it should help the Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future, for us.”

uh_no wrote:

^^^bad idea......learning to spell crazy words serves no purpose....especially with spell checkers...what does make sense is knowing the correct use of homophones....their, they're, there, etc....things that aren't caught by spell check

that's like saying that there is no point in running crazy fast times on the track because we have bikes or cars or planes. planes if you want to go really fast, cars to go fast locally, bikes to go faster locally but still get exercise.

On the topic of private educations vs. public debate. You have a couple of things that are different that I would like to bring up and some of these have been brought but I am going to repeat them and add a bit.

I disagree about the private school teachers having a more stringent hiring process. Many times the hiring at private schools is extremely political and many times the best is not hired.

The behavior issue is also political. At a public school there is a lot more than just kick them out. You have to remember that this is a system that has parents and others voting for board members and other things making it extremely political. It is much easier to kick a kid out of private than public and honestly it should be. Also if a kid is kicked out of public school they just get sent to a different school many times. The problem for this is the free education for all and until this is changed it will always remain a problem.

Finally something new I would like to bring up. DNA. Most of the kids that go to a private school have a genetic advantage due to their parents who for the most part have gone to college, graduated, and now have good jobs that allow them to pay for the private school. Also they have much higher expectations meaning the students are held accountable and the parents are involved.

For the education system in this country to improve some dramatic things need to occur that are taking place around the country.

1. Group students not by classes but by schools

2. Make parents pay for a students education. Not a ton of money but a little bit so that it is important to the parents that they stay in.

3. Make it possible to get rid of bad teachers who do not do what they pare paid to do.

4. Get rid of an education for all and make it an education for most.

That Garage Bands don't make it.. Go to College!!!!

Blowing Rock Master wrote:

BTW, the correct alternative way of writing 17 x 19 would be 9 x 7 + 9 x 10 + 10 x 7 + 10 x 10.

Why not just say:

17*19=20*17-17=340-17=323 ...

Geography and Logic should be studied, but not just to learn those topics themselves. Both of them teach you how to think more than what to think. They are more than skill sets or bodies of knowledge.

Geography helps all kinds of spatial learning skills, so important for sciences, maths, design, as well as languages. Never mind the fact that to be a responsible citizen these days it would help to know where countries actually ARE in the world. Numerous National Geographic studies have shown American kids lag far behind the rest of the world in this area.

And it's simple why logic should be taught- it's the study of argument and defending a viewpoint, applicable to everything from science to law to politics to even Lydiard vs. Daniels...

WTF...honesty and respect are not always one in the same, they just sound good until you apply them to society sometimes you have to lie to respect another person. example someone overpays for something you honestly tell them so and now you are an asshole with little respect for that person. What we need plain and simple is to better the human condition and sometimes honesty is not the best way to do that, lies can have an incredible placebo effect if told for the right reasons. Example Everything is going to be OK.

Long Run wrote:

...honesty and respect are not always one in the same...

"one AND the same"

Think about it a second. "One and the same" makes some kind of sense; "one in the same" doesn't.

Sorry--I've been letting a lot of stuff go recently, but this particular error is starting to get to me.