Has Nike's NXN ruined Footlocker National?

Central Park was man-made, so are those not real hills either? Should we discount the NYC Marathon or any race run in Central Park? Most golf courses have hills that were created, so should we discount any xc course on man-made golf courses, even those with "real" hills?

I graduated HS in 07. Personally i like footlocker and think it has been awesome. But, NXN is the better format. Teams do matter and i believe it raises the bar of the generally running population- before you could only win the state title and now you have the change to race the best teams out there and there should be no reason that team and individuals shall be in different races (our sport does not work that way). this is the way it is done in college, this is the way it is done pro- granted team is country- so it should b done this way in high school).

Personally, though, I would have liked to seen them be able to combine the two into one, but that didn't work out. Now, despite all its rich history, is the time for footlocker to end SO we can have one true championship race (team and individual) and for the old-timers that are hanging on footlocker, wasn't that the point of it? to have one championship race? well guess what, it isn't doing that anymore

i think i have addressed all the big points here. any thoughts?

I remember, when I was in hs, FL XC was this thing that one aspired to...the people who ran in FL were the celebs of high school distance running...I think the NXN event tends to take away from that. I also think hs is more of an individual sport than college XC (at least for elite runners), because, in hs, there is the potential for college scholarships...while there are exceptions, making FL is like gaining automatic entry/scholarship to the school of one's choice, assuming one has decent grades/test scores...in college distance, elite runners already have their scholarships...therefore, rather than worrying 24/7 about how they look to college coaches, they can put more energy into team goals (and are probably training with a team of equally focused/skilled athletes)...in hs, many elite runners probably feel isolated from the rest of the team at times, because they probably (need to) put more into the sport than those who are simply running for fun/socializing...just my thoughts on the matter...I think I deviated slightly from the original topic....of FL, but whatever....

Nike offers financial assistance to schools who cannot make the meet. I'm not talking about financial assistance to NXN, but financial assistance to the regional meet. They do this for teams that aren't guaranteed to win but teams that would probably finish in the top 10. That's pretty cool of them.

It's hard to run a national level meet for a highschool program. How many other highschool sports have legitmate National level championships? Pretty few. Give it time and I'm sure the system will work itself out.

Maybe I did not explain it well enough. The hills at the Meadowlands were like ramps and yes they were man made. Did you see the "hills" at NXN. Different. If you have seen those things you may understand. If you have seen them and you do not understand then I am wasting my time.

I like NXN's format where they have a bigger race and it has teams as well as individuals. I just do not like the course. And as I said already twice, if I were 17 I would rather get everything paid and go to Footlocker. I am no longer 17 and Footlocker will be dead shortly so neither matters.

Although I can follow your argument here, I think it has some holes in it, the major one being this idea that "elites" in college don't have anything to aspire to. They have professional contracts, they have teams to qualify for in certain areas. They have different levels of support (gear, housing, entries, etc) to look for after school. The AA status in cross (or track) will get you a guaranteed look by these professional teams and professional coaches around the country.

I love playing Devil's Advocate in any situation - helps to see the other side and better your own argument - but I cannot find a way to explain and honestly defend the lesser aspect of team in high school competition.

watchful eye wrote:

My opinion is Nike with their NXN has somewhat ruined the Footlocker race by siphoning off a ton of talent for their event. It is great that nike has given another opportunity to so many other runners & teams that might not qualify for the Footlocker event. Is NXN a part of progress or decline of HS cross country?

Without reading a single other post, here is my comment.

Footlocker was great, but much like accusplit stopwatches. A thing of the past without an evolving vision or real passion. Footlocker should have taken up the team aspect. They had decades to run the show, and never came up with that.

Nike saw the potential and made it happen. If they can get the top individuals there at the same event, then you have solved the problem. It would be the same as NCAA's, the ultimate showdown for all high school teams.

Nike should buy footlocker out and footlocker should bow out and do the right thing for the kids. They have done a GREAT thing for the kids, but now there is something better (that they couldn't come up with). So they should allow it to bloom in full and the kids get the best possible situation.

I predict this will happen soon one way or another.

FL is going strong and will always be the best. NXN is nice but the weather sucks in Portland at this time of year. Maybe the kid and one parent may fly out, then come back home that Saturday night. FL is in San Diego and many make a two week holiday for the whole family out of it. That's what we are doing now. The weather here in San Diego is in the mid 60's today.

I know last weekend was unusual, but the weather in Portland for Thu.- Sat. was mid fifties and sunny. The view of Mt. Hood was awesome.

Having done the Fl thing three times in the past 6 years I was glad to get to Portland. The Nike campus alone was much better than sitting on the beach. The water was too cold to go into anyways on Coronado.

Good-bye Footlocker, your time has passed.

Sad Diego is a prime vacation spot for America and is warm, 50's at night, 60's-70's during the day. San Diego has 24 hour a day T-shirt weather. A great place for the whole family in December. Portland is dismal and cold in December, it was in the 20's at night last weekend. Nike has to pay runners to come out it's so cold. Few would run if not paid by Nike to come out. In this economic depression I doubt if NXN will survive, unless the Nike bosses in Beijing provide additional funding.

Portland weather in December sucks if you're looking for a warm vacation. NXN brings the teams/individuals in on Thursday and they fly home on Sunday after many great experiences over the course of those 3 days. Amazingly, the Portland weather doesn't seem to negatively impact the number of family members willing to travel to NXN to support their kids. I won't begin to predict the future of FL, but I think you're underestimating the potential for NXN to become the one and only national championship for high school cross country.

I would like to see the NXN race on a different course too, but that is really my only complaint. If the meet is good enough, nobody is going to care whether is 60 or 45. Its cross country, not a vacation.

NXN has been a huge success thus far, and I don't see it going anywhere. FLN has another 3 years of splitting the field with NXN and then FLN will fold or merge with NXN.

rad runner wrote:

Nike has to pay runners to come out it's so cold. Few would run if not paid by Nike to come out. In this economic depression I doubt if NXN will survive, unless the Nike bosses in Beijing provide additional funding.

What does that say about FL if they have to pay runners to come out to sunny, warm, and beautiful San Diego? By the way, have you heard that FL is closing over 100 stores after the first of the year?

Nike has laid off thousands and is in a desperate pinch. I don't see how NXN can survive with given the weak economy and disgusting albeit economical location given their HQ is also there. They should move the race to Florida where people are willing to pay their own way to get to in December. FL is held in such a nice location there are many others who will take up the sponsorship if FL dropped the race. FL is an American tradition and will be for many decades to come.

This isn't a case of "a rising tide lifts all boats," it's simply an example of "the rich get richer." I'd be surprised if the mean (or median) family income for the majority of school districts of teams that most often participate in the regional meets for NXN is under $60K. No, the schools don't fund the trips, but rich school districts also have rich families who can easily fund team trips to meets that are several hours away.

Ruined, strong words...IMHO Without Nike's $$$, this sport would be a little more professional then rock climbing.

Footlocker has the primo high school cross country event in the U.S. largely because it's held in Southern California, known as the Track and Field Capitol of the World. Fact: 9 of 29 USATF track and field medals at the 2008 Beijing Olympics were won by Southern California residents, 0 were won by Oregon residents.

I agree that more affluent schools can travel more easily to regional meets, but there were plenty of less-affluent teams that traveled to NXN regional meets. As someone else pointed out, with more regions, it's much easier to travel to a NXN regional meet versus a FL regional meet.

But, more importantly, can you name one team that could have finished in the top 20 in the U.S. that chose not to travel to regionals due to money?

Not sure if that was a serious question so to be safe I'll answer as if it was. Yes, Footlocker pays for all the athletes to go to Nationals. Last year they arranged all the Midwest qualifier's flights so that they had the same connecting flight from Phoenix so that they would all arrive in San Diego together. Then they put them up in the Del Coronado (sweet hotel). Free meals, free transportation, free whatever the whole time they're there.

Possibly the worst pro-footlocker argument I have ever heard. You're really going to make the argument people in SoCal care more about track than people in Oregon? Or Jamaica or Ethiopia for that matter? You realize that California has over 10 times the population of Oregon right?

I will now attempt to make a pro-Footlocker argument that has some logic to it. High school cross-country is definitely more about the individual than is college cross-country. In high school the teams just aren't on level footing like in college. In college every school has/had a fair shot at every athlete. High school there's too much luck-of-the-draw about the talent teams get for it to appeal to me because, lets be real, the biggest predictor of how good a team will be is its total accumulation of natural talent.

That said, Nike has the opportunity to win because it was willing to completely f*** over a select few athletes just to hurt Footlocker. If an athlete is forced to make a choice between an individual competition and a team competition, not a single one will choose to abandon their teammates, even if they'd rather do Footlocker. So Nike has basically said to them "sorry, but you have to choose between passing up the biggest race of your high school career or abandoning your teammates."

That said, the Footlocker champ is still considered the individual national champ. Unless something changes that, Footlocker will continue to be considered the be-all and end-all for top-level individuals.

As someone only one year removed from high school, I couldn't tell you who won either team race or individual race at NXN, but I could name the top 5 for both gender in order at Footlocker off the top of my head. I was mid-flight when Footlocker was run, the first thing I did when I landed was text my friend to find out results.

I think the end result is a combined, NCAA-style meet. Call me old-fashioned, but I much prefer a more natural xc course (pretty much any course in America relative to NXN) to intentionally-built mud pits. I think deciding the individual national champion on the NXN course would be a joke. The FLN course at Balboa Park isn't wide enough to put 10 billion 16-minute guys on and expect the top individuals to have any room to move if they don't go out in 2:10 for the first 800. I have always though Terre Haute would be a good idea. With a combined meet, the qualifying process could be accelerated and the national hs meet could be held the week after NCAA's.

sparknotes: If you're a 16-minute 5K guy on a good team, NXN is good for you. If you're a 15-minute 5K guy on a good team, NXN has totally f***ed you if you're in certain regions. Footlocker is still king for individuals and always will be. Combined meet is the way to go, but can't be on NXN course or FLN course, maybe Terre Haute?