Why don't we see Kick Ass African American distance runners?

Poetic, concise, and to the point. Nice summation Ahnuld.

I'm having a hard time getting a read on your organization of thought here. Were the pages you cited supposed to back up your argument? In the midst of all that sarcasm did you even have an argument? What exactly was your point?

I sincerely hope that you are not citing Mr. Entine as an expert on the reason for African success in distance running.

His argument is about the superior genetics of Africans and not their environment being the reason for their success. And his first point is that soccer is the number one sport in Kenya, and by saying this he is implying that the children grow up playing hours of soccer and not practicing running as he says is common a common myth. Mr. Entine is saying that the belief that kids in Kenya grow up running is wrong. And when the kids finally decide to run Track or Cross they don't have any practice running, so the reason they are good is there superior genetics.

Enough said

Wwll, Regina is mixed with THG, but I don't think that's what you meant.

Most, if not all, African Americans are descendents of Western Africans. Western Africans were not known for running long distances and weren't even skinny like Kenyans. They are what you would call "big boned" and also they have a lot fast twitch fibers.

Interesting article a few years back in Runner's World (believe it or not) call White Men Can't Run. It explained genetic differences between west vs. east africans and the genetic makeup/fiber compositions of both groups. West africans being more fast twitch, east africans having more of a balance etc..

good read if you can find it.

Should be called "White man can't run ANYMORE". They used to be able to.

Wondering why Europeans aren't running the kinds of times they used to run in the numbers they used to run them is a MUCH DIFFERENT QUESTION than wondering why half of the top 100 runners every year on any distance list are going to be from one tribe in Kenya and another 25 from somewhere else in E. or N. Africa. I don't think our nuturists are quite aware of the numbers associated with the utter dominance of sprinters FROM A VARIETY OF COUNTRIES of W. African background. Jamaica, the US, Canada, Trinidad, Namibia, the Ivory Coast, Nigeria - these places don't have a common culture yet the constant between them in sprinting is W. Africa genetic heritage.

Certainly, Europeans have lagged behind what a "natural" level of top athletes would be for sociological reasons, but to match the dominance of one tribe in Kenya in terms of population percentages would require Europe to have thousands and thousands of 2:08 marathoner.

As much as we rightly esteem CLayton, Shorter, Rodgers, and the like, they would be trounced by B caliber Kenyans today who run 2:06 doing handsprings at the finish on a regular basis rather than running 2:08 on their best day neear death at the finish line.

to the max wrote:

At the high school level it's rare that you will see an african american distance runner, yet you'll see a ton of african american sprinters.

I have to disagree. Based on what we're seeing in Minnesota (which has a relatively large population of East African immigrants), it's likely that many top US distance runners of the future will be of East African decent.

Anecdotal evidence: The 2003 Minnesota State CC Meet.

AA (big schools) individual results:

2 Yahya Iman, 11 15:17.2 Marshall

10 Dahir Jumale, 9 15:47.8 Marshall

14 Sufian Kimo, 10 15:56.1 Saint Paul Arlington

17 Ahmednur Jumale, 11 15:59.4 Marshall

42 Obsa Taddese, 8 16:23.8 Chaska

47 Mohammed Omisaye, 10 16:28.4 Fridley

56 Seyfu Hassan, 11 16:32.8 Rochester J Marshall

62 Alemo Akway, 11 16:35.3 Fridley

100 Abinor Farah, 12 17:08.5 Minneapolis Washburn

because they are point guards and strikers! I wouldn't run if I could run ball or score goals.

McDonalds!!!

The agruments in this thread are false. Steve Holman the last American to run under 3:51 is African American as is Krummenacker who is without a doubt America's best distance runner. There is also 3:53 miler Terrance Herrington who was running less than a decade ago.

Goo bird wrote:

The agruments in this thread are false. Steve Holman the last American to run under 3:51 is African American as is Krummenacker who is without a doubt America's best distance runner. There is also 3:53 miler Terrance Herrington who was running less than a decade ago.

...and one more poster has officially missed the point of others arguments. Way to cite outliers. Try reading Ahnulds posts. Then read it 3 more times. You apparently don't get the point of others arguments the first read through.

As an individual whose father is African and mother African-American I think you hit it right on the spot. In todays society African-American naturally gravitate to basketball, football, and if they happen to go to track its predominately in the sprints or jumps. There are several more African-Americans out there that could compete on a National scale, just as there are Caucasins (more than whats actually competing) that could compete on a National scale. If only small numbers compete than the likelyhood of several emerging into national class is very small.

It all boils down to a certain mindset steering them in other directions besides distance running. I am not saying that the African-American would naturally be great distance runners; however, with a MUCH larger number attempting distance running and than a few more would make it to National Class and possibly beyond. The fact remains that those numbers will not increase anytime soon.

Vipam

All these people are mixed with white with 50 percent white DNA.

Ahnuld wrote:

16X

By your logic, height isn't inherited since some people in a family may be tall and others short (and vary between individuals within groups). I am frankly stunned that there are still people who believe there are no group phenotypical trends within ethnicities when the evidence is right in front of your eyes and has no convincing counter explanation.

I do believe that there are group phenotypical trends, I don't even have to refer to a scientific article to look at the difference of a pack of Kenyans running and caucasians in a major road race....however.....

If you buy into that theory "too much" then you float over the issue of sociological reasons why people do and choose to do what they do...which as far as I am concerned is a much greater indicator of what the sport pool will look like in the end. If we had out tennis raquets to appalachian kids, give them free coaching and some support, over a decade or so they will dominate the tennis world and people will say, "there is something about those appalachian kids and tennis, must have some Scottish in them, or the tough lifestyle, blah, blah.....and the little rich tennis children in Florida will all quit and start smoking dope or something....and we sure don't want that to happen.

"they will dominate the tennis world"

I don't think sports like tennis which priviledge much more complex combinations of subtle skills that can combine in a variety of successful ways are going to be as sensitive to genotypical difference between groups as overtly physical sports which the whole measure of success involves one overt physical characteristic such as power, strength, speed, or endurance.

We aren't debating about what causes any one individual to be successful, we are talking about group data here.

When you isolate one trait or rather uncomplicated traits, you are much more likely to see the influence of genetic propensity. There is no good sociological reason to assume that West Africans from Jamaica, Trinidad, The US, Canada, France, England, Brazil, Cuba, Namibia, The Ivory Coast and so on share terribly similar cultures.

Poverty has to be the dumbest explanation for success in a sport I have ever seen. Poverty may lead individuals to see success in a sport ONLY if they have a propensity to find success in that sport. Tons of countries and indidivuals in a country are poor. Why do some value some sports and others value other sports if poverty is the cause?

I saw the state meet and was struck much the same as you were; the Somalian influx into MN has had a significant impact upon the level of running we are seeing at the HS level across Minnesota. And not only that, look at some of the ages of the runners- Jumale is just a 9th grader and Taddese is in 8th grade. There is little question thatmarshall will wipe the state next year, concevably with 3 runners in the top 10- all Somalian.

My feeling is that it is not just in the African American community that running is not valued- it simply is not valued anywhere. A lot of kids run, but unless you run for York, how many people ever show up to a HS meet? I knew kids who ran for 4 years who parents never went to a single race. No value in distance running. We can't even get a complete 3000 or 5000 on tv ever.

scotth wrote:

A lack of role models explains this and most other situations like it.

Time to bump my reply from 5 days ago to the tailend here.

Black Man, you took the words right out of my mouth. Speed pays. Distance running doesn't. Even for white folk. In reading Steve Scott's book The Miler he said "We'd all run the 100 if we could."