Not to say you can't run those times, but, I've never heard of anyone breaking 1:50 that only runs a high 49.
Not to say you can't run those times, but, I've never heard of anyone breaking 1:50 that only runs a high 49.
Think of it this way, there are many 800-1500m runners out there at the world level who have run 48 for the 400 and in the mid 1:40s for 800m, so why can't a guy who runs only a high 49 run a 1:50? Look at Trackhead's example posted earlier on this thread.
Youre kidding right? wrote:
Not to say you can't run those times, but, I've never heard of anyone breaking 1:50 that only runs a high 49.
I've already run it.
Hey Tinman-
I had a question for you regarding an athlete that I know. drop me your email address and I will send it to you. Its about a 400/800 guy.
Nick
m.d. guy wrote:
Is there a way to tell what I could theoretically run a 1500 in based on 400m./800m. times of high :49/ high 1:49
theoretically you could run under 3.26, just train like El Gerrouj.
Speed endurance,
its a little bit confusing.
its a huge amount of work over many years,
but its not rocket science.
wolverine wrote:
Malmo,
As JD stated those charts are simply average statistical values for predicted mile times.
But it does bring up some important points.
1. You can optimize endurance a bit beyond this prediction.
2. But, speed is the ultimate limitation, particularly in middle distance.
You can also argue that speed/quality, is important in events up to the marathon too.
Look at Jerry Lawson's 2 American Records in the marathon after training with Jack.
The overall mileage was lower, but there was a focus on quality. Higher quality both in the REP work and THRESHOLD work and MARATHON PACE work.
The point is that you can keep focusing on the endurance side of the equation, but you may actually be hurting your long term potential because your speed may decline.
So a higher endurance optmized around a slower max velocity can = a slower race time.
A person with a PR of 50 may be able to run a 3:38 1500m by focusing on the endurance side.
But that same person could have run a 3:30 or faster if the speed was improved down to 46...(i.e. Seb Coe example)
Just don't trash Daniel's Formula like you did because it has helped many Americans run well, particularly in the marathon.
Look at Dehaven using the Jack Daniels MP tables...and he the lone qualifier in 2000.
good post wolverine,
as well as building endurance, we must use specific pace work since this is absolutetly the way forward with regard to running specific times.
there are also non specific improvements, pace wise, in the form of strength training, to be made from hill work which improves technique and pace judgement as other posters pointed out.
malmo's contributions are always valuable, he knows how to keep a good thread rolling along.
tinman wrote:
1500m runners need hill reps, no doubt. You can do all the wt training you want, but nothing is as good as hill sprints, hill sprining, hill bounding for increasing power in your running stride.
I like the idea of one weekly hill session of 40-50 second hills (around 200-300m). The intensity can range from 80-90% of max sprint effort for the distance. If you can run the hill in 40 seconds at 100% effort, then run up it at 44-50 seconds (90-80% effort)(40 / .9 = 44.44 and 40 / .8 = 50 seconds). I think that 80-85% can be done in reasonable volume and provide a solid stimulus for power gain. I would rather you do 6-8 hills than 3-4, so if you have to jog an extra 2-3 minutes at the bottom of the hill to keep the volume and speed up, do so. I think a few slightly downhill striders after the hill reps will loosen the muscles and create some neural quickness too.
As crazy as it sounds to a lot of people in our modern era, I think you can run hill reps with 100-200m fast striders afterward throughout the track season, as long as you aren't racing within 3 days of the hill session. I would not do hill reps the week of the peak race though.
Folks, hill reps are a key for people who have a tendency to get injured. It is almost impossible to tear a muscle sprinting uphill. You can fatigue a muscle greatly and possibly strain it a little if you do too much too soon, but far less so than running speedwork on the flats. Frank Shorter is known for saying that hills are speedwork in disguise.
good post tinman,