Why do most college girls burn out by their soph year of college?

no cool handle wrote:

I've been observing this phenomenon for quite a while.

are you sure this trend is specific to women? do you know how many guys quit running their sophomore year?

H2O girl wrote:

Part of the issue is coming down to pure fitness. Running is enjoyable when fit, your body feels good and your mind follows. If your in good running shape I truly don't believe puberty will be that cruel, fat deposits are fat deposits...

Most females hit puberty in high school anyway...and have boyfriends.

Women burn out for the same reason guys do - injuries, change of priorities, etc.

I think the people who mentioned females maturing sooner has a good point. They realize they aren't going to make money running and shift their focus to school, career and other future goals during college, while I notice a lot of guys do this around their mid-to-late 20's.

The whole "maturing sooner" argument is out the window for me - according to that, every good runner doesn't know what to do w/ their life.

to quote Chubbs ......

"It's all in the hips"

umm.... maybe 32" hips? try again.

txRUNNERgirl wrote:

Most females hit puberty in high school anyway...and have boyfriends.

Women burn out for the same reason guys do - injuries, change of priorities, etc.

I think the people who mentioned females maturing sooner has a good point. They realize they aren't going to make money running and shift their focus to school, career and other future goals during college, while I notice a lot of guys do this around their mid-to-late 20's.

Damn if that is why lots of girls lose interest in running then they are selling themselves short, seriously. You can have a job and still run well. It seems that if the lack of future financial incentive is what causes many women to lose interest... well then I doubt they were ever that interested to begin with.

In the US running is honestly less about money for men than women. There are waaay for scholarships out there for women than men, thats a given. Most teams have larger rosters for women, perhaps the "burn out" we see in women is simply those women were never personally into running in the first place. For most men, running won't pay for school or even part of it, so you run merely because you want to. Leaving college doesn't change much since you were never getting any financial help from running anyway, but for the women it is a loss since many more of them are getting money. In fact for men, on the average you get MORE money from running after college, since you can get prize money now.

The money for myself, and damn near every post collegiate I know is merely a nice, happy, bonus. But if money was a primary driver, then post collegiates would never run unattached at indoor meets, or run USATF cross, club nationals or any of those races where you will never realistically get anything but a good time, some competition and a beatdown.

Now I am not saying all women run for money or scholarships, that would be bogus. But I am saying that through college more women get money which may add pressure and alter their perspective of what running should give them.

Two words: Erin Donahue

She proved a lot of people wrong.

Mackenzie - women may get more "money" because Title IX and other circumstances make resources available. But even the scholarships, while nice for some, often pale in comparison to the need to begin to make sound preparation for life and wise choices. Women in general mature earlier - and while there may be something to the physiology (men gain weight too, as is evidenced by too much beer drinking and inattention to fitness by so many male runners in college), running competitively just reveals itself as a less viable pursuit for so many.

I look back on my post collegiate years and view them as fun, but not a great use of my time - fortunately, I was a very serious student and did well in grad school - but I certainly could have started on career matters earlier and in fact would have appreciated later on making that choice - running is limiting - frankly.

dr. too bad wrote:

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_athletics/MACHADO_M_19950805_GH_L.jpg

umm.... maybe 32" hips? try again.

Awesome, you found one picture of one woman, do you want me to post 1000's of pictures validating my point of women running fast with tiny 8-year-old boy hips?

I don't think it's anything to do with 'maturing earlier'. At least, I can only speak for my experience here in the UK, and it seems girls lose interest more easily than guys. I do think puberty is a big factor though - with women the changes are more likely to be deterimental, whereas with guys the changes are more likely positive and lead to faster times.

H2O really got it here. I am part of a respectable division 1 program where this happens all the time. Girls feel great and run well their freshman year, get hurt for a while, then don't have the patience or desire to struggle for however long it takes for them to get back. However, same goes for a lot of men too.

Q angles sound like a good reason for "fallout" but

"Men" should know that the constant "reward" of the glowing comments made daily, if not hourly, to anorexic females about how wonderful they look and how special they are, are like a drug to the driven and competitive women who receive them. On the other hand, one can be substantially healthy and lean, but not anorexic, winning big races, and constantly be told how much better they might be at 10 or 20 pounds less weight. They also would not be able to run, train or compete as they underwent complete physical and emotional breakdown. So, just as most men never keep at it, why question the women who listen to their bodies and minds and realize that making a living takes most of their energy, and that the results to date do not indicate a professionally lucrative running career. Almost all top females have had a "breadwinner" to train with and lean on along with a big sponsorship. If they don't, they can't get above subsistance. Which female runners with any longevity are single? Many crash when their husbands leave them for a "less driven" woman (or women...)

As a 55 year old female who was "in the hunt" when the fast races and deep fields of the early 1980s were occurring, it drives me crazy that all these pontificating "guys" think they know what is what with women! (> 5 sub 2:50 marathons and 35 for 10k before colleges had teams. No coach ever!) First of all, the best women do not stop menstruating no matter how much they run, unless they are totally anorexic to the point of illness or death. Many girls work very hard and appear locally good, but if the periods stop, they (or their male coaches) need to get a clue. Less talented women will stop menstruating very quickly as the stress of their training exceeds their genetic capacity. Almost none of the top women stopped, but most all of the OK ones did. Those women are now given estrogen to replace their natural hormone not produced during starvation. They then can't tell that they are over-extended but the artifical hormones sap their competitive edge. Their hair often falls out, they get tearful. The anorexic pounds, so carefully starved off, come back on. Not a lot, but enough to ruin the top end and the VO2/kg Max. The best examples are the "One Marathon Wonders" who ran, not much more than a year, at the top of the world (and got their pictures on the cover of Runner's World) before their anorexia led to stress fractures, or chronic and ill-defined, or psychiatric illness. They almost never come back. Men will never understand that it is a full time job for a woman to become , or stay, skeletal, as is required for top competition. The only women who can stay in the game have the genetic and psychological capacity to do the work, not become amenorrheic, and run the weight off. If the running shuts off the hormones, the female is experiencing starvation or severe psychological stress due to the pressure to appear skinny to perform at the top. Try working full time and running full time and keeping the weight off and "maintaining life balance." (Oh! I forgot to mention that the gynecologist will warn that it may be difficult to have children...) The genetically gifted will have them, sometimes unplaned, and run well anyway, although many have had small for gestational age babies due to fear of gaining weight. The jury is out as to whether their kids would have been brighter, or bigger, if the women had been less self centered about avoiding the weight gain.

Anyway, having just run (and won my age group) in a local marathon 31 years after I fisrt qualified for Boston (in my very first marathon)in 1977 when the qualifying times were much tougher, as well as having a Master's in Exercise Physiology earned way back in 1981, I think I have at least minimal standing to express my thoughts. Don't expect any higher percentage of girls (and young women) to remain top notch competitive than you do males. My question is why do the majority of males (who have no Q angle problem) stop competing even though they can still beat mediocre and even most good women? They aren't even fat! Guess it might be that the rewards are all about winning for men and being anorexic for women. Not skinny enough as a female? No amount of victories will make you a household word. Not the number one finisher for your country as a male? Why bother as who will remember your name. Me... I still love to run after almost 45 years of competing in multiple sports, regardless of my time or place. And, oh, my husband left after 25 years for a younger and skinnier woman.

who are some girls who ran really well their freshman year and haven't done anything since?

For women out there -- or any coach -- have you EVER seen success from those freshmen/sophomore high school phenoms after they took their junior/senior downturns?

Is it hopeless?

What has worked with training, nutrition, counseling, support, etc. to allow them to first regain happiness and to then regain the speed and success they once enjoyed so easily?

I think they quit because it's hard. I knew a lot of girls that won regionals and went on to place high, or even win state championships simply because they were one of the few girls that actually put much effort into the sport. I don't mean, constant running and 100 mile weeks, I mean just coming to practice and making a decent effort.

A guy doing the same thing might be OK but nothing special. The women then get to college where they might actually have to try and run to the point of hurting, and they call it quits.

The level of competition is simply so low that any female that makes a real effort will be greatly rewarded.

I put my 4 year old daughter in ballet because she made me.

Chicks love "dance". And Abba

So I tried to put my son [5] in too.

He lasted one class.

He hasn't heard the term yet, but he thinks

ballet is gay.

What was the topic......

coachy coach wrote:

For women out there -- or any coach -- have you EVER seen success from those freshmen/sophomore high school phenoms after they took their junior/senior downturns?

Mary Decker.

There was actually a guy on my college running team who had wider hips than any of the girls on the team. He looked quite funny but ran faster than any of the girls despite those "wide hips".

I agree that there are girls who go through radical changes at puberty and no longer have a runner's body but there are plenty of men who do not have a runner's body either. Lightness helps tremendously in distance running and most adult males are not meant to weigh 115lbs, 120lbs, even 130lbs. The ones that naturally weigh those weights are freaks of nature and then there are the guys that strictly control every calorie they eat to weigh that little. Yes- guys can and do have eating disorders too. The men on the college track team were just as fanatical about food if not more so than the women.

No, it's not hopeless. It requires patience though and lots of it. It can be a very difficult road though, to have had success, lost it and attempt to regain it. I myself and other girls have a sense of shame, it's embarrassing to be slow and the fear of losing becomes a neurotic drive. Competition has become a threat and no longer a challenge. You know deep down you don't have the tools to compete so the weirdness starts. That's me being honest here. Fitness is the only thing that matters for my enjoyment of running, at least to me. Once the body has started to reabsorb training and a really good healthy base is developed it's like the sun can shine again because it creates a feeling of stability but it takes time to get there. Once there, training feels good, feels healthy, workouts feel like input and not output. You become grounded again and the fear of failure magically disappears. You know you won't win everything but that you can race again you can surge and not just survive. It is possible, that talent is still in there somewhere. I don't think it's really necessary to have the counseling and nutrition and all that but a supportive environment is never a waste. If they can get to the stage where they can laugh little about themselves then all hope is restored in that moment.

No! It's not hopeless!

One thing that has always helped me get through bad times was being reminded that running is a something that should be for LIFE and not just while running well. Having fun, doing the best that you can for THAT day, getting good, healthy exercise should be emphasized. Try to keep them positive. Promise them that they WILL improve again when they adjust to the new workouts/life/body whatever it is.

quote]coachy coach wrote:

For women out there -- or any coach -- have you EVER seen success from those freshmen/sophomore high school phenoms after they took their junior/senior downturns?

Is it hopeless?

What has worked with training, nutrition, counseling, support, etc. to allow them to first regain happiness and to then regain the speed and success they once enjoyed so easily?[/quote]