Tegenkamp Post 5000 Meters Comments

I'm assuming your last comment was referring to Geb? I'd hardly say he was struggling to break 13:00 in his mid 20s - the guy ran 12:39 at age 25 and after that race basically did just enough to win his 5k races and didn't chase after any records.

Ghost and the darkness wrote:

I agree fully. With Rosa, Hermens, Kostre and others "directing" the Africans, there is obviously a lot of cheating - meaning drugs - pumping through the veins of some of these "genetic specimens". As long as officials feel they have to back off from popping these people on drug tests, letting them go because of political correctness, you are going to see a lot more shenanigans, like well past their prime guys who struggled to break 13 in their mid 20's finishing a 10k with a sub 13 5k.

half wrote:

Maybe he should just run the 10k.

maybe he will run brussells on september 5th.

U guys it amazes me to see how u think. Am ethiopian origin grew up in states consider myself american because i spent the important years of my life that defined and molded my character here in seattle. I would have a hard time if i went back home the culture and especialy life style am wearing is american. Now to my point honostly if white skinned person trained like ethios could do even better. Some of my friends are good runners like dire tune. And others traing in ethio. The biggest difference i see is that they do endurance work and mileage. Its not ur skin in fact in america u dont grow up malnutritious the way most people do in africa. Physicaly compare two 10 years old kids ethio and american. American has stronger bone and body but we are not using it properly and definiteley not maximizing our potential and pushing the body including myself. But am working on it and it has to be done gradualy not in one nightplan long if u want to be a log distance runner. Improvement comes little at a time. Congratulations to our boys they did well. They did their best and thats all that matters. Good job shalane hall ritz kera nick and everyone. So guys lets train hard and beat the ethios kenyans eritreans darnet the whole east africans. And lets practice running in groups and do surges with somebody else leading that way when u r done surging u dont die and u will be pulled along. Love u all keep the hard work

Very embarrassing wrote:

Pre would have hung on like grim death until his legs buckled had he been in this race.

The world scene is so much more competitive now than it was 20 and 30 years ago. Assuming he'd have made the final, Pre would've hung on like grim death (maybe) and would have ended up dead last. It's so much easier to be the hero in a race when you know you have a shot at winning. So, if you're running 62 pace and getting dropped by 10 guys and fighting to not get last place, psychologically you're done. We give so much credit to past icons when, in reality, they would never be competitive on the world scene today. American distance running is getting much better - the problem is, so is the rest of the world.

Usain Bolt wrote:

Paul Tergat: 6'0" 137 lbs

Mat Teggenkamp: 6'1" 145 lbs

try again.

Jimbo60 wrote:

The biggest thing working against us as Americans is our physical size as it compares to the Africans. The guy who won the marathon was 5'4 and 112 pounds. I would guess Ritz is 135-140. That is alot of extra weight to carry...at any distance event. Notice how the Finns, the Brits and virtually everyone else is no longer contending for gold either. Do you think the Africans could contend for medals in swimming or basketball? The fact is there are physiological limits to what we can do in all sports. We are doing a remarkable job with what we have. Hats off to all the US distance runners.

Or

Tergat = Black African = FAST

Teg = White American = Not FAST enough.

Genetically whites will never be as capable as blacks when it comes to running.

Swimming is the white man sport.

Running is not.

Fast 800 guy wrote:

Africans were running in good numbers by the '68 Games. It's just that all the brainwashing in the West has really taken hold, .

A nearly 50 to 1 ratio of east african descended runners at or under 27:10 in the 10k vs european-descended runners at or under 27:10 in the 10k isn't "brainwashing." I think you meant to write: ASSKICKING.

"i got done with the race and was just wishing i had another 12 laps to catch the leaders. i think i need that extra 12 laps to close the gap with those guys. i have the wheels to close the gap, i just need an extra 3 miles to do it."

Fast 800 guy wrote:

hanhill wrote:

There were a ton of Africans in the '72 olympic 5k final.

Africans were running in good numbers by the '68 Games. It's just that all the brainwashing in the West has really taken hold, and it's almost funny (but pitiful) to see Western kids so scared and psyched out. There are a few with talent, but without the mentality to do well, they won't.

East African runners of the 60s and 70s are not the same as the East Africans on the track today. The fact that there's money in the sport and that many East Africans are following professional srtyle of coaching and training has made an enormous difference. If you think anyone of largely non-African heritage will ever legitimately run 26:17 for 10000m, you're off your rocker. There are factors within them that cannot be overcome with a lifetime of training and hard work. Of course a guy like Mottram can beat Bekele under the right conditions, but in a flat out, personal best pace race, Bekele has him owned. He knows it, too.

Seems like you made some assumptions to bolster your argument.

Jimbo60 wrote:

The biggest thing working against us as Americans is our physical size as it compares to the Africans. The guy who won the marathon was 5'4 and 112 pounds. I would guess Ritz is 135-140. That is alot of extra weight to carry...at any distance event. Notice how the Finns, the Brits and virtually everyone else is no longer contending for gold either. Do you think the Africans could contend for medals in swimming or basketball? The fact is there are physiological limits to what we can do in all sports. We are doing a remarkable job with what we have. Hats off to all the US distance runners.

DATHAN RITZENHEIN

Events: Distance

Height: 5-8

Weight: 117

PR: 1,500m - 3:42.99 (2002); 2 mile - 8:11.74 (2007); 3,000m – 7:39.03 (2007); 5,000m - 13:16.61 (2006), 10,000m - 27:35.65 (2006); Half-Marathon – 61:26 (2006); Marathon – 2:11:07 (2007)

Born: Dec. 30, 1982

Current Residence: Eugene, Oregon

High School: Rockford (Mich.) High School

College: University of Colorado

Coach: Brad Hudson

Agent: Peter Stubbs

Club: Nike

Ethiopia.guy wrote:

The biggest difference i see is that they do endurance work and mileage.

-AND-

practice running in groups and do surges with somebody else leading that way when u r done surging u dont die and u will be pulled along

All that writing and this is the only advice you can give? You must be one of those Nigerian email scam artists trying to throw us off.

Just didnt want to bore u guys and some will criticize it but thats ok was using my cell too and it takes forever. Every week long run up to 2 hrs build once every 3 weeks 2 and half hrs long run hills in ethio they dont like long ones they do like 200meter up and down 30 to 45 min. Break it into 3x10min w 5min break hall ass up that hill slow down ok am sory i wil be back emergency call and do lots of 1000 2000 mile repeats and 1200s yesterday me a kenyan and nathan planed to do 10x 1000 well we managed 8 did it 11 pm long story we werent going to sleep unles we did it at least me. Again am working my way so dont kill me for not doing 10 i wil get there am not nigerian thanks

Thanks for the advice. You do sound like one of those Nigerian scam artists, though. Your style of writing is exactly like theirs. Those scammers have conditioned me to automatically distrust anyone who writes like you. Those bad apples have spoiled it for you buddy. Nigeria should come up with a different economy that is not based on fraud.

The last 2000 went in 4:56; how many Americans have run that fast? The last 3000 in 7:37, close to Teg's PR, and it did not get real fast until the second half, so the last 2400 to 2800 were, by design, too fast for anyone other than Bekele while at the same time making it so that he did not have to lead from the gun.

No offense dude, but I know white people that run 120+ mpw and 3-4 workouts and I'm sure there are whites doing (much) more than that. If you think that the ethiopians "just train harder and want it more", you're a fool.

Teg says that they were messing with the pace. Really that is only true for the first 2,000 meters as far as I can tell. Thanks to Tivo I was able to record 200 meter splits for most* of the race.

Bekele's 200m splits:

200 29.8

400 38.2

600 34

800 27

1000 36.5

1200 31.5

1400 32

1600 30

1800 32

2000 31.3

2200 31.8*

2400 31.8*

2600 31.8*

2800 31.8*

3000 31.8*

3200 29.3

3400 29.4

3600 30.3

3800 31.4

4000 30.7

4200 30.5

4400 30

4600 31

4800 26.1

5000 27.8

*NBC showed long jump between 2100 and 2900 meters so I don't have those 200 splits. I estimated these based on average pace required to hit 8:01 at 3000 meters, the next known value.

Tergat was 125 lbs. while racing.

Usain Bolt wrote:

Paul Tergat: 6'0" 137 lbs

Mat Teggenkamp: 6'1" 145 lbs

try again.

im a fan of Teg but I don't know how he can say he needs to work on his strength. I mean he ran 13:04, seems like he has plenty of strength. But after being in a race where he saw the winner run a 53-point last lap wouldn't he think he needs to work on his speed more so then his strength? Running a few ticks under 3:40 for the 1500m is impressive but doesn't compare to a 3:32 or better. I think if he improved on his speed more he would see his times drop considering he can/will be able to run a faster pace overall for longer distances.

Looking closely your splits makes me all the more impressed at the race! If you look at the 400m splits (to put it in perspective of what you usually remember from a race) I'd say the pace was quite variable.

Here are the laps broken down by lap split, differential from previous lap, and equivalent 5K pace for the lap split (data is in 4 columns - sorry for the difficult format. I can't seem to get HTML tags to work today):

distance lap split lap diff 5K avg

400 68 - 14:10.0

800 61 7 12:42.5

1200 68 7 14:10.0

1600 62 6 12:55.0

2000 63.3 1.3 13:11.3

2400 no split

2800 no split

3200 61.1 2.2 12:43.7

3600 59.7 1.4 12:26.2

4000 62.1 2.4 12:56.2

4400 60.5 1.6 12:36.3

4800 57.1 3.4 11:53.7

First they dramatically change pace by alternating between 14 min paces for 2K, then the last 5 laps are at sub-13 pace (and near or below WR pace for 4 of them). Lap-to-lap differentials of 1-3 seconds in the last 2000m, especially at sub-13 pace are huge. I would imagine the laps with no splits are no more even than the last 2K.

Of these splits, only 3 laps are at slower than Teg's 5K PR (and one of those is close). Two of those are in the first mile separated by a lap at sub-13 pace. That kind of variation would kill me at 15-16 min pace - I can't imagine it at sub-13!

Ryan Hall 5'10/141