The high on September 10, 1972 was 63 degrees. Also, the 10000 meters final was eight days before the marathon.
The high on September 10, 1972 was 63 degrees. Also, the 10000 meters final was eight days before the marathon.
Oops--I can't count: seven days. The 10000 was September 3 and the marathon September 10.
Munchen wrote:
Wrong again. Almost all Olympic Marathons start in the evening and finish in the dark.
Many Olympic marathons have finished in the dark, but the 1972 Munich marathon did not. It started at 3 in the afternoon, and Shorter finished in daylight.
Montesquieu wrote:
The high on September 10, 1972 was 63 degrees.
No, it wasn't. Are you sure you don't mean 73 degrees?
Munchen wrote:
wrong wrote:Rome
Wrong again. Almost all Olympic Marathons start in the evening and finish in the dark.
Except for the ones that start and finish in the mid to late afternoon as was done in Munich.
Give it up.
i think a better question is which of today's runners could finish 5th in the 10,000 and first in the marathon at an Olympics.
HRE wrote:
i think a better question is which of today\'s runners could finish 5th in the 10,000 and first in the marathon at an Olympics.
Are we just talking Americans? \'Cause none of them could do both, if any can do even one. Hall might be able to pull off a 27:51/2:12 one week double, but 27:51 won\'t be within half a lap of 5th place at the Olympics. And that\'s a big might. I know it was while in heavy marathon preparation, but isn\'t his 28:06 his fastest (only?) 10k? We\'re really just assuming he could be a good 10k runner, based on his 13:15, 2:06:17 and some great XC runs, but he hasn\'t shown us that ability on the track yet. Maybe he could be a great 10k guy as well, but we can\'t assume he\'s a 27:15 waiting to happen anymore than we could assume he was a 3:36 guy 5-6 years ago.
If we\'re talking Africans, however, there might be a few who could possibly pull it off, but won\'t even be attempting it. Of those who have already run well over both distances, Geb and Sammy Wanjiru come to mind, and Tergat in his prime. Of guys who haven\'t yet run a marathon, Bekele and Tadesse are the only ones who stand out.
Has anyone besides Geb run sub27 after running a marathon? I know Wanjiru ran 26:40something about two years ago, before he started ripping up the half-marathon records, but he hasn\'t raced that short in a while, has he?
Dopameter wrote:
Munchen wrote:Wrong again. Almost all Olympic Marathons start in the evening and finish in the dark.
Except for the ones that start and finish in the mid to late afternoon as was done in Munich.
Give it up.
Or the ones that start in the morning, like Beijing.
Trollie McSockpuppet wrote:
Montesquieu wrote:The high on September 10, 1972 was 63 degrees.
No, it wasn't. Are you sure you don't mean 73 degrees?
Idiot, since the high average Sept 10 temperature in Munich is 66 degrees and it was overcast that day, I'd put my money on 63.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THUKgZX9pw8Munchen wrote:
wrong wrote:Rome
Wrong again. Almost all Olympic Marathons start in the evening and finish in the dark.
Wir Deutsche können sure einer Stadt leuchten!
Munchen, let it rest. 1972 Munich Olympic Marathon: afternoon race, mostly cloudy, temp. - mid 70's
Munchen wrote:
Trollie McSockpuppet wrote:No, it wasn't. Are you sure you don't mean 73 degrees?
Idiot, since the high average Sept 10 temperature in Munich is 66 degrees and it was overcast that day, I'd put my money on 63.
Do you have a burning desire to be wrong and boast about it?
JimG wrote:
Or the ones that start in the morning, like Beijing.
Or the ONE that will start in the morning.
I looked at this yesterday, I could have sworn it was 63 degrees, but now I see 65. I must be going mad. But here's the report:http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/EDDM/1972/9/10/DailyHistory.html?I watched the race on television. Erich Segal was the commentator--decent enough classicist; poor commentator (but he was Shorter's professor for a class at Yale) and there was this hilarious moment when he was trying to convince Jim McKay how much food Shorter consumed in any given day. My memory is that the weather was overcast, which is fully supported by the two youtube links below. Also, note how many people in the videos are wearing jackets, long pants, etc. It was clearly not warm.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THUKgZX9pw8&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVVeM7bkDME&feature=related
Munchen wrote:
Trollie McSockpuppet wrote:No, it wasn't. Are you sure you don't mean 73 degrees?
Idiot, since the high average Sept 10 temperature in Munich is 66 degrees and it was overcast that day, I'd put my money on 63.
I'm amused at how big of a deal the temperature in Munich on September 10th, 1972 is.
The link you provide shows only the AVERAGE for Sept. 10th in Munich, not the actual temp that day. In Track and Field News's lengthy report on the race in their Sept. '72 issue it says: "It was hot and humid when the race finally got underway at 3;00 P.M...." And a bit later in the report, after noting the slow 15:51 5K split, it says "it was obvious that the weather would have considerable bearing on the way the race would be run."
Runners World published a 96 page large-sized booklet on the '72 Track and Field events. On p.47 in its marathon report it says: "Marathon day started as one of the warmest of the Games. The air was hazy and humid when the race began in the stadium at 3:00 P.M."
And Shorter in his autobiography co-written with Marc Bloom noted that less than an hour after he finished it started to pour. He mentions it out of relief it had waited until then since he noted his history of running poorly in the rain, but his comment also highlights how humid it must have been during the race as the rainstorm was approaching.
Conclusion: Shorter clearly would have run much faster than 2:12 in cool, low humidity conditions.
Derek Clayton mentioned the humidity in his book, "Running To The Top".
A lot of the marathoners look uncomfortably hot in the video that was posted early in this thread.
Ron Hill, in particular, looked a bit wilted.
The link in question shows the MAX for the day. You're right, of course, that humidity does matter.
The date on the link is Sept. 10, 2008 - NOT 1972. It then shows the average high for the date. The site goes back only a few years for its data.
Jack Foster, describing Munich in "Tale of the Ancient Marathoner" says "it was hot."