Natural Selection!
Natural Selection!
Ok so I will modify my position to include the following statement: It is possible to ride a motorcycle for the pure enjoyment w/out the desire to kill oneself whilst riding helmetless.It isn't moronic, suicidal or natural selection. It does carry a higher level of risk than say, wearing full body armor with full face helmet (my normal attire) but, in my opinion, not materially so. It is substantially more risky than riding a couch scratching one's balls and saying, "Man, that guy is nuts!"It's not about brains it's about risk. There are some very smart people out there riding helmetless. They know the risk, they understand the peril and they choose to do it anyway. Why, because they've acquired the ability to manage the risks that they take. You chicken littles have not. There is nothing wrong with that. We all take risks in our daily lives. Because some of you believe that riding a motorcycle helmetless is a level of risk greater than you're willing to take doesn't make you any smarter than someone who doesn't believe it is a big deal. It, more likely than not, just makes you more conservative. For the guy who states that he doesn't want to subsidize these risk takers with his hard earned taxes, dude, you and your running are being subsidized by people who are afraid to leave their homes, so don't sweat it. We are all subsidizing behaviors that aren't in line with our own level of comfort. That is why they call it a society of human beings; we are all in this together even though we are substantially different in certain aspects of our lives. I’m sure there’s some overweight gamer complaining about subsidizing all these runners out there ruining their knees.Also, I wouldn't say that I'm a bad driver; quite the contrary, I would say that I take more risks in traffic and in difficult terrain than the average bear though. Doesn’t make me stupid but, I do admit to biting off bigger levels of risk than I can chew at times…and I wouldn’t want it any other way.
scotth wrote:
Friend, this is an 'argument' worth pushing. You make my argument-a helmet saved your life. Riding w/out a helmet IS a death wish, especially on a motorcycle.
I don't see what you're getting at saying it's possible to ride a motorcycle for the pure enjoyment w/out the desire to kill oneself. Did you leave out the 'minus a helmet' part? If you intended to include that part, having a desire to kill oneself and leaving oneself wide open for same are two different things.
Jefe, there are no arguments that can convince me that riding w/out a helmet is anything but a risk not worth taking.
Nothing is learned by noting how 'smart' somebody may be that rides w/out a helmet. Being 'smart' does not mean all the decisions one makes are sound & well-considered. Lots & lots of 'smart' people do dumb things and/or things that put themselves unneccesarily in harms way.
There are no sound arguments for riding w/out a helmet. None.
Yes, yes, yes, I'm painfully aware that most Americans think it insane. I've "lost" all my helmetless debates over the years with the "I'm right and you're wrong" argumentative style of the opposing side. So of course I know, especially here at letsrun.com, I won't be "winning" any hearts and minds. That is not my intention.The only good it does to argue these points is that it may pry people out of their box and assess the way they live their lives. Try to get them to expand their horizons, to think differently. Doesn't have to be helmetless motorcycle riding, it could be unprotected sex with a stranger - just kidding...don't want to open that can of worms ;-)Also, I've got many, many helmetless motorcycle memories that I would wish everyone could experience; Ft Bragg (long story), Rocky Mountains, Mexico City (longer story), Patagonia, Santorini (Thira), Rome...
scotth wrote:
Jefe, there are no arguments that can convince me that riding w/out a helmet is anything but a risk not worth taking.
Nothing is learned by noting how 'smart' somebody may be that rides w/out a helmet. Being 'smart' does not mean all the decisions one makes are sound & well-considered. Lots & lots of 'smart' people do dumb things and/or things that put themselves unneccesarily in harms way.
There are no sound arguments for riding w/out a helmet. None.
Jefe in the CO wrote:
Also, I've got many, many helmetless motorcycle memories that I would wish everyone could experience; Ft Bragg (long story), Rocky Mountains, Mexico City (longer story), Patagonia, Santorini (Thira), Rome...
Yes, and there are plenty of people that drink & drive, arriving at their destination safely; others that smoke 2 packs of cigarettes daily for 50 years and die of something other than cancer or some lung ailment. There are athletes that take PED's, never get caught and live full, active lives post-drugs. And so on and so on. Folks dodge the worst on a regular basis. Dodging bullets ain't worth it- too dangerous.
There are young people taken into morgues to see dead drivers who were DUI...to scare them into 'death comprehension'. I don't know...I think the best way to persuade folks about safety points is to keep on making the points w/out a preachy tone, be sincere and cite an example when appropriate. I used to own a helmet split up one side after I nailed a dog @ 20mph.
Whenever I can, I urge cyclists to wear a helmet & nothing I'll see on this board could possibly change my stance.
In CT, the day that the mandatory helmet law was repealed is basically a holiday, in honor of "Pappy" Pittsley who fought against the law and died before it was enacted.
And there are people that wring their hands w/angst & worry about smoking bans in public places. It's amusing, very, to hear from bar owners & patrons about impending bans on smoking in watering holes. 'Woe is us, we're doomed,' they all say. 'Our business will suffer, etc.' In the short term, possibly, in the long term life will improve for all.
Was in a bike race today and, of course, every rider had a helmet on. They all know you can go down any time in tenths of a second and exact serious damage.
Sad example of a young woman who left her helmet home: an avid runner/cyclist in Flint went for a spin w/out her helmet years ago and crashed about a dozen years ago. I don't recall the circumstances. I know she suffered serious head trauma and, I, ummm, damn, I don't know what else to say. With a great, great deal of physical therapy and support she can walk w/a limp very slowly. Her communication skills and ability to care for herself were severly curtailed. Whether she wants to, she's a 'poster child' for wearing a helmet. Please, if you ride, put a brain bucket on. Thanks.
Because they are dumb. Ask Rothlessberger of the Steelers.
Wait Scott, I'm confused; where do you stand on wearing helmets again? I don't think you've made yourself clear or posted enough on this. Take a stance and keep restating it over and over if you don't mind. Maybe if you do it for the 15th time it'll stick in my head better.
Personally I think riding your bike on any kind of road designed and maintained for 4 wheeled motorized vehicles to move quickly on which may or may not have enough consideration for cyclists to move over a little bit and all this being done over long distances is a deathwish in itself, helmet or no helmet. Sounds like just about anyone who's cycled for a long time has had a scary wreck story. A helmets not going to save you all the time especially when it comes to cars running you over. Those performance trikes are much less likely to tip. Seems much safer to me if not causing head damage is a concern. I do ride my cruiser bike without a helmet because I like the wind in my hair, I don't go very fast, nor deal with traffic. It's not a deathwish. If I had one, I'd be flying down the highway on a two wheeled, 20 pound machine aiming face first. Scott, you say not wearing a helmet while biking is needlessly stupid and dangerous. I say biking on highways is needlessly stupid and dangerous. We all have our own comfort levels. Just don't be so shrill (or repetive) about what yours is.
It is statistically safer NOT to wear a helmet.