Please state 5k PR and average easy day pace

i think that has a lot to do with mileage. I run 40 mpw and very rarely run at below 8 min. pace with a 18:45 PR. I am willing to bet my PR is a direct result of me NOT running slower than that. (It isn't much faster, normal runs in the 7:15-7:30 range) Basically what I am saying is, when you have limited time to train, aren't cranking tough track workouts twice a week and don't run 75+ miles a week then I feel your time is wasted (for the most part, I do understand revcovery runs are needed) at a slower pace than that unless you are training for a marathon. For those guys below 16, most of which run more miles and in order to avoid injury, need those slower miles. I am a novice, never ran in college or HS, but know in my case, the more miles I put at a medium or higher intensity the better I will become given my resources (time, capabilities, etc.).

This is a great post and I am in full agreement that some of these guys running sub-15 and high mileage are either BS-ing or hurting themselves based on how hard they do their easy stuff -- a-la Adam Goucher and the claims of him on easy days in Running w/ Buffaloes.

no offense Will, because you are better than I will ever be, but 9-10 minute miles? That is pretty slow, like barely moving. A couple of thoughts: A., I always was under the impression that despite it being an easy/recovery day, you should still be stimulating yourself, which with a 16 PR, I find hard to believe can be accomplished at that pace, unless you are going 10 miles, which you very well could be. B., At that slow a pace, wouldn't it be better to just take a day off since as I said before, you really aren't stimulating anything. And before you answer, I understand to some degree, you aren't really aiming for stimulation, but to "recover". C., Assuming running at that pace, and going at least 8-10 miles, are you worried it could mess up your stride, efficiency, mechanics? I may be stretching, but again, I am not fast, but if I run at 10 or even nine pace, I have to physically hold myself back and it feels like more effort goes into going slow as oppose to running.

For all who feel running very slowly on recovery days is too boring, I suggest doing those runs on natural-surface trails. It's much more entertaining that way. I agree that 8, 9 or 10 minute miles on the roads is super boring, but when you're in the woods the easy days are quite enjoyable. Of course, not everyone lives near good trail systems ...

1) I am not that fast anymore. I think if I tried to break 20 I'd have a heart attack now. (The trade off of getting a life and a wonderful family.) But, I tried a lot of things when I was running a lot. High mileage, low mileage, middle of the road. All of it fast, some of is slow, some of it all out. You name it, I've done it. What I found, after all those years, is that I can run within 5% of my very best on low-to-moderate mileage (meaning 40-55 miles a week) with 2-3 workouts and 1 long run. I do better when I'm not hammering more than 1 workout every 2 weeks. Everything else is moderate intensity when it comes to the workouts.

2) The recovery days for me are treats. I found, at least for me, if I run slow enough that it doesn't feel like running...it helps me more than if I am even slightly pushing the pace. I've never articulated this, but, when I am pushing the pace at all, I feel like I'm leaning forward just a little to try and gain different mechanics. Typically, I can tell if I'm taking it truly easy if I am not doing this. For me, it's either recovery or a workout. The body is working regardless of what the watch says and I really took what Jon Sinclair described to me once a the major issue most Americans fall into: the easy days are too hard and the hard days are too easy. In terms of intensity, if you were to chart it using whatever physiological or scientific model you like, you'd see little vallies and little peaks. He said you need to see big vallies and big peaks. From his own mouth, he used to do 8 milers in 70 minutes when he was training hard. Now, I'm just some age-grouper used to be. This is a guy who was running low mid-13's for 5k and 60's for the half and he was talking about 70 minute 8 milers. The math on that is 8.75 minute miles. If you do the math, that's almost doubling the pace. Morcelli used to do 10 minutes miles (if the rumors are to believed) and he was a 13 flat 5k guy. 4:10's to 10:00. Something like 2.5 times 5k pace. There's something to it.

3) Whether you are a 14 minute 5k guy or a 24 minute 5k guy, the physiology remains similiar. Logically, at least as far as I'm looking at it, running faster because you're slower seems to be the reverse of what successful runner's training would suggest you should be doing.

4) As for taking a day off, no. There are physiological benefits from even low intensity aerobic activity. Decreased blood volumes, reduction in plasma levels and reduced cardiovascular development are just a few. Even if it's slow, running easy, even 12 minute miles is better than no running at all.

5) Running at those paces won't destroy biomechanics. Who really forgets how to run fast. There's no way I'd run 10 minute pace for 8-10 miles. Maybe 6. I found 45 minutes was my upper limit on easy days anyway. I don't worry abuot volume so much as the positive effects of the workout. I'd rather do 15 one day and 5 the next than 12 one adn 8 to try and even out volume. Doubling one day and taking one day really easy seems more effective to me.

6) As far as physically holding myself back. No, I actually try to run so slowly that I don't even push the pace at all. I put on my HRM and just go watch things roll by. I say I'm gonna run 4 miles. If it takes me 28 minutes, it takes me 28 minutes. If it takes me 40 it takes 40. For me, the effort (easy) and effect (recovery) is more important than game I have to play making sure I make myself happy by running fast enough to feel like I didn't waste time. I accept slow as a good thing and find ways to make that happen so it has a positive effect on my training.

good stuff will. valid points. i tend not to agree on the 12 minutes of running is better than no running though. taking days off can be very valuable both mentally and physically -- especially for those who are semi-serious, but not good, 40 MPW guys like myself. I'm a firm believer in, if you are running easy/recover, you need to go at least 30 minutes to reap the benifits. Anything less, and you might as well stay home -- which isn't all that bad in itself.

14:50, 6:45

14:15, also ran 8:07 for 3000

Usually ran without a watch if I knew the distance of the loop I was running, which was mostly to keep an easy effort without being preoccupied by how fast I was actually going. I'd estimate 7:00 pace, give or take 10 seconds either way.

18:30 5k PR

9:00 pace

for real wrote:

good stuff will. valid points. i tend not to agree on the 12 minutes of running is better than no running though. taking days off can be very valuable both mentally and physically -- especially for those who are semi-serious, but not good, 40 MPW guys like myself. I'm a firm believer in, if you are running easy/recover, you need to go at least 30 minutes to reap the benifits. Anything less, and you might as well stay home -- which isn't all that bad in itself.

12 minutes per mile...not 12 minutes total. I like to run at least 3 miles or 35 minutes, whichever takes longer.

i think mike smith (distance coach at kansas state) needs to read this thread...

he has his guys (one 15 flat 5ker, the rest are hovering aroun 15:45-16:45) run "easy" days at 6 flats...

on the girls side (one 17:20 5ker, maybe two more around 18 flat, the rest between 18:30-19:45) he has at 6:45s or under.

it looks like the vast majority of 15-16 minute 5kers train their slow days between 6:45-7:15. Atleast that's what i've read so far on this thread. and the 17-18 minute 5kers are anywhere from 7:15-8 minutes.

his "easy" day paces might have something to do with the previous years 12th place finish at big 12s... just an observation...

15:17

easy days at 6:45.

17:26

Easy days: 7:50 to 8:30.

15:45

7:30-8:00

14:56

7:15-815

17:00

Didn't run at all on easy days. Did stairmaster instead.

warmup and cooldown pace about 7:30

Depending wrote:

5k 14:30

average easy day depends on how I feel. Generally around 6:45. If I'm feeling easy and good, I'll cruise easy at 6:15-6:30, if I feel bad, I'll slow it down a lot- 7-7:30 even 8:00 pluses a few times. Its all about letting your body recover sufficiently and listening to when it needs to slow down or when you can cruise.

15:50, I'm also a big believer in going on feel. Generally would go around 4-4.10/km +/- up to 15sec either way depending on fatigue levels and how the legs feel.

Also most of the time I do easy runs for time, rather than distance, so as not to worry at all about pace. A 1 hour run always takes 60 minutes.

right now i'm in about 17:45 5k shape

i do my easy runs at 7:55 to 8:10 per mile pace

if i am going faster than that it does not feel easy

I think people should go slow, but don't stress SLOW too much, i kept hearing, go slow, go slow so I would do my easy runs at like 9 minute mile pace

after reading daniels, Hadd and especially lydiard i picked it up and force myself to at least stay below 8:15/mile... my running has improved in the last two months as a result. i'll have to wait and see if it continues to improve...

14:00 and 6:45-7:15 depending on fatigue, weather, surface. Usual steady pace is 6:15-6:45, mostly at the slower end of this because much of the steady stuff is done off road.

Bottom gun,

My personal best 5Km is 14:13

Average easy run is between 6:00 to 8:00 pace per mile. Depending on training goals and weather conditions.

Jeremy Huffman

http://www.posetech.com/services/JeremyHuffman.html